Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on March 09, 2016, 08:31:09 pm
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Hey fellas,
Recently got my bow trade bows finished up so I decided to start working on some bows to repay the graciousness of some very good friends.
Just wanted to share the whole deal with all of you. So here is what we got as of today. I'm roughing out 4 bows as follows
Scalloped Seneca type for Don Burchett....52", osage, 26" draw, 65# min., sinew backed, skinned with a nice Eastern diamondback w/ rattles and carved sides and tips (Waxed linen string)
Osage Penobscott type for Jon W, 52", osage, 26" draw and 70# minimum, sinew backed both bows, carved fineals, backbow skinned with a very nice black snake and the main bow backed with timber rattler (waxed linen thread)
A 55#Osage Penobscott sinew backed with the same skin combination as Jon's bow (for me)
Ironwood Penobscott same size about 60/65# sinew backed, skinned with timber rattler as a possible gift to another friend depending on how I like it.
Here are some starter pictures of the rough out sticks, skins, and sinew/hide glue I'll be using. Figured ya might like to come along for the ride....but cant say how often I will update.
rich
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Man rich those are nice and some very nice quality skins.
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That's awesome Rich. Those are some fine looking skins. I'm sure you'll do them justice. Look forward to seeing the finished products.
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Thank you Drewster...we will see.....figure I dont have a whole bunch left in me so I'm gonna make some real eye candy to be remembered by 8)
Gutshot, that one timber rattler should look real familiar to ya sir (thank you) If I get the other one (s) in you probably gonna get that ugly son of gun back, course it may be glued to a stick >:D
rich
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I'm on board for this ride.
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Rich,
This is off the chain man!!! That is going to be a saaweeeet bunch of bows and some very happy guy's...That Seneca already has me drooling... :o :o :o I have coveted one of your scalloped bows for a long time! Thank you and hope to see a build along on these...
Don
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I shall follow this thread with bated breath. :D
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Man Rich, those are going to be some beautiful bows! The cool thing about it for me is, the one you're making johnW I'll probably get to see in person one day! Can't wait to see you at work here bud!
Patrick
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Oh, so now you fancy, huh?
jk. They will be thrilled.
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These look exciting! I'll be happy to see more.
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Cool, a lot of potential in those pictures
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Well here is a sort of update....I had roughed out the general shape of Don and Jon's bows....but only to the point where I could make necessary lateral adjustments...then go back and trim the thickness closer to floor tiller to prepare for the tillering for shape.
Dons bow needed very little lateral movement (about 1/2 inch at a runout.....it also had general small amount of reflex with a "woopty- doo" mid limb that I took out temporarily until the thickness was finalized....then the overall reflex will be evened out....As I work down the bows thickness I make angled cuts from side to belly which leaves a peaked ridge down the middle of the belly and repeat this as necessary until I'm floor tillered about 10# heavy. and then mill-bastard to a low crown preparatory to tillering. At the point of starting the second round of belly cuts my thrust bearings decided to cease-up so it will be thursday till the replacements arrive.
Pictures of the described work....Dons bow is the scalloped Seneca
Jons bow (the heavy Penobscott) needed quite a bit of lateral movement. I want to leave as much snale as possible (to accent the skins) but these bows need to be absolutely aligned so the bending arc's of both bows are in line, otherwise the short bow will twist and warp the main bow's thin tips. I have both these bows aligned so that tips and centers are in alignment both to themselves but to each other as well.....I did not get to recut the belly lines on any of the bows so they are on hold for parts arrival......pictures of that bow attached.
The pics of Dons bow first and Jon's second.....since I'm not sinew lining my penobscott I'll work on that one for a week till the saw is back up and running. I want to have Don and Jons bows allmost completely tillered prior to sinew application.
Anyways here are the pics.
rich
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Dons next pics
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Jons sticks
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Those are some sweet sticks! I'm inspired by your scalloped bows. I think I know what I'm going to try next. Well maybe a Penobscott. Oh crap now I'm not sure. :laugh:
Patrick
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those are some beautiful starts, I can see some great looking bows in there :)
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Lookin good bud.
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Good start, rich! I am enjoying the show. Jawge
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Those are looking pretty fine Sir.
But dang, 65#... 70#... :o
My poor old shoulder aches just reading those draw weights. :-[
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Paul, I hear ya man, I am not going to be able to shoot these in for them.....they are a couple of "full growed" men 8) so in a way it's sort of cool that I can make a few heavy hunting bows. My own is gonna be between 50 and 55.
Don and Jon I hope these come out even close to what my vision for them is
Thanks George....just because I dont usually choose to make 'em fancy doesn't mean that I can't....but we will see in the end.
Thanks for the encouragement fellas, but really, it aint over till the fat lady sings so we will see.
rich
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Rich,
Looks awesome, I feel like a kid at Christmas...That's going to be one awesome Seneca... :o
Don
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Hey Rich,
gonna be beauts . I gotta get to where I can do more. Sure wish I was your friend :o
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Dang Rich, youve made more bows in the past month than i've done in 2 years. Your a machine.
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Wow!! Thems gonna be some sweet bows. I wish I had even half your energy at building bows and a quarter of your talent.
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Thank you for the encouragement fellas....Turtle, I seen your bows mine aint got a damned thing on yours at all....Stix, just an old man lookin to keep the cabin fever from setting in ::)
Well fellas, since I got to wait on the bearings to get here thought I would work on my Penobnscott. My bows are all short and all about 50-55 in weight so I can cut them pretty close right off the band saw. That means I can hand tool mine right away. The wood is Osage, main bow is 50" overall, with a 28" back bow. The back bow will only be 25" between the knocks but I wanted some extra carving material for the fineals.
First I wanted to straighten out the bows to get the bend arcs in a straight line so I steamed both bows and straightened them laterally. I took pictures of the bows next to a straight edge so you can see what got done....then a pic next to the straight edge afterward and also one with the bows set on top of each other to show the lineal alignment.
Then I tillered out both bows ( the back bow may need to have some weight taken off) The main bow is right at 50@25 but the backbow is still real stout. Thats as far as I got today and tomorrow I will set the final reflex for the back bow. I'm leaving the bow tips straight like the "early" versions for 2 reasons. First I really like the looks especially in the braced and full draw profiles.....and second, the bow is plenty short to hunt with as is so I dont need to shorten up it's draw space.
There is a picture of the bows on top of each other from the side so you can see the one whoopty-doo that I'm leaving and tiller around.....when ya look at the braced and draw disregard that for judging the bend....I expect the bow to be right....even with the dinger.
So tomorrow I hope to tie them together (temporarily) to judge the total draw weight....then I can proceed with the finishing touches...like carving etc.etc. so here are the pics ...more than one set
rich
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more.....also a pic to show just how small this bow is.
rich
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This is a darn good post and idea half eye.I've got mentors I should send made bows to too.Just to show thank you for being there.
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Looking really good Rich! Man you can sure crank one out!
Patrick
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Rich,
Looking at the braced pic and the full draw, everything is working on that short stick and looks very balanced in your hand...Told you yesterday on the phone that I was trying to incorporate the knee bending after and during floor tiller, you can feel the difference in the limbs and their balance early on...I was able to get that piece of OS bending and braced evenly without floor bending...With short bows this method works great...
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First off, I'm glad ya like that Don....I agree and like it because you can literally feel the bend as well as see it. Glad it works for you also.
Well fellas here is today's effort. The first couple pics are where I clamped the back bow to the main bow to look at the two at both rest and brace to make sure I had enough movement area between them.
Since I wanted to skin both bows, and they are quite skinny which makes "normal" carving fairly problematic for me......so after a little cogitation I decide they would look good with Onieda style belly scallops. Since the backbow was a tad heavy I just dove into that without regard to loosing any weight. When it came to the main bow I wondered about the weight issue.....but ultimately decided I wanted to know how it looked more than any weight loss. So now both bows have belly scallops and flat backs for the skins. The main bow did loose 4# so I'm still on target.
The only thing I'm not sure about is scalloping the snaky main bow and how that would look in a "wiggle" pattern but think that turned out good. So here are the pics....closing in on ready for skins, finish and strings...we will see 2 sets of pics
rich
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next set
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Holy crap man, That's bell and whistles!!! Never seen that before :o :o :o
Don
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Holy crap man, That's bell and whistles!!! Never seen that before :o :o :o
Don
+1
I dont remember ever seeing belly scallops begore.
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Don, Turtle....not my doings fellas.....The Onieda had these on the belly's of some of their bows and the Mohawk hand the same type pattern but on the back of the bows. They was usually on their shorter sized bows and the longer versions were plain.
But glad you like 'em, and hopefully they will accentkins and not detract from 'em.
rich
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Those belly scallops look good as does the side profile on that bow Rich.
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Those belly scallops look good as does the side profile on that bow Rich.
+1, WOW!
Patrick
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Hey fellas,
Here is some pic's of the knocks I'm using on the backbow....and how the string lays in it. Sorry forgot to put those up yesterday. The main bow has simple pin knocks, because the bow has to be strung and unstrung totally @ time so I want the smallest & shortest knock available.
rich
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Rich,You do some amazing work.
Do the scallops have a purpose other then looks.
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Emmet,
I dont believe there is a definitive answer here is why. In every case where certain tribes and or bands had scalloped bows, they also had plain sided (rectangular section). In nearly every instance the plain outnumber the scalloped by quite a margin.
As far as I know, the shape and decoration of a bow was strictly up to the caprice of the carrier (owner). Having said that the bows that are scalloped were done in certain patterns affiliated with the particular tribe or band,i.e. An Odawa bow looked different from a Ojibwa which was different from a Pottawatomie......even though they were related brothers.....then all of theirs were different from the Oneida and different from the Mohawk, even those were brothers....so my inclination is that the scalloped bows were decorative, and also signposts while at the same time being fully functional bows.
I have used scallops to help tiller out a few bows but do not believe that is the main purpose, rather a matter of "look at me, I'm special" for whatever reason.
rich
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Rich,
I like that tiny grove you incorporated to center the string coming off the nock...How are you liking the linen so far? It has zero stretch, kind of a natures fast flight material...Also very light
Don
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Don,
That linen is super string material in my opinion. Like ya said ya got the advantages of man made fast flight (no stretch, light weight etc.) but in a natural product....I like it very much.
rich
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Rich, Osage is good at splitting as we all know. Do you have any reservations about the notch in the center of the back bow? Could you put some kind of overlay on it?
Patrick
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Pat I'm not gonna speak for Rich but I don't think there is a problem with the small notch. Just an allignment aide. Rich will clarify for sure.
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That's cool, it was just a thought I had. I figure if he was concerned then he would have overlayed it. But I'm still curious.
Patrick
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Hey fellas,
Patrick, I dont believe there is any issue at all sir. The loop end of the string will be acting as a transverse wrap (anti splitting) and the knot will be either a hangmans noose or a triple wrap timber hitch (elongated knot) so even with severe pressure I dont believe splitting will be an issue at all. In addition these bows have 4 string knocks so even a 100# bow will only generate approximately 25# of force on @ one......so with my 50/60 pound bow it's only going to be around 13/15 pounds of force.
I made this type on my ironwood bows in the other thread w/o issues (I know it aint the same wood) so I have all the confidence in the world of sucess 8) 8)
Jon, when it comes to Osage working properties you can speak for me anytime sir 8) I like Osage but by no means am I versed in the subtleties of the wood at all,
rich
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Thanks a bunch Rich. I never thought about the distribution of poundage an the tips that way before. That, and I was kinda making sure that you had thought about the possibility of that happening.
Patrick
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Fellas,
Got the bellies smoothed off and the skins on with first coat of sealer.....tomorrow I can finish the skins, grease and wax the exposed wood, and hopefully bind the two together.....in the meantime here are some progress pics.
rich
couple sets
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next ones
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Dang Rich those belly scallops are too cool. They make that bow come alive along with the skins.
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Holy crap that is awesome rich!!
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8) 8) 8)
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I'm falling in love with the belly scalloped deal 8)...Looking good bud...Skins are awesome also :o
Don
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Fellas,
Got the bow greased and waxed, and tied together. The hemp wrap is not the final grip area look. The bow will have a temporary artificial sinew string set. I want to make sure there is enough linen for the other 3 bows first....will then replace the AS.
Here are the pics till it's finished. The grip area will get fancied up, the belly side of the tips will get some attention and then will post finished pics.....hopefully the saw parts will arrive by then.
rich
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rest of pics
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Ya get lotsa practice doin' tips, huh? ;)
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Man I hope that crappy wood holds up for ya bud. You might wanna friend somebody with a more reliable wood type ;)
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Knoll, dont know what ya mean.....aint all bows got 4 tips? ::)
Jon, no sir !!! this has to be some of the nicest bow wood I have seen....perfect growth rings, red streaked, wood rings like a bell....so no sir I'm stickin with the wood and the friends I got >:D >:D >:D By the way, did I thank you for this stuff? No ? guess I'll just have to send some of it back to ya 8)
rich
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How far south did ya have to drive to find grass to take pics? :D
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Man Rich that sure is a sweet bow! Now I know that a Penobscott is definitely on my list to make!
Patrick
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That is some beautiful work Sir.
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Holy snakes- that is a sight to behold! :D
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Can't wait to see it finished up. All the Penobscots you have posted lately has got me wanting to try one sometime.
Seems like the list of bows I want to build someday grows way faster than than the finished bow list. ???
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Can't wait to see her stretched back man...That scalloped belly is awesome...Really classy looking Penobscot Richard... 8) 8) 8)....
Don
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well fellas, guess it is a bow... two sets of pics first set is the usual unbraced, braced, and full draw. There are 2 braced pics the second one is after shooting it in some. The second set is close-up of the grip all four sides of the grip....used a piece of timber rattler to make a snake wrapped around the grip with painted head and rattles and red/yellow eyes and lightning bolts.....
comments welcome and hoping the saw parts arrive so I can finish Don and Jon's bows.
rich
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grip pics
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Nice bend RI! That came out great!
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That is beyond brilliant. The bows are striking enough and then the the handle wrap is like a blaze of glory!
The full draw is awfully nice too! :)
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Sweet.......... What weight did you end I up with at your draw length? Looks like you are using only one set of knocks on the big bow instead of two. What are the advantages/disadvantages other than less knocks to cut?
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Well thank you all for the nice comments..... Sorry I forgot to post the stats, Osage from JonW, self bows, 49" main bow (7/8" wide), 50/52# @ 25" , The bow feels like it will go 26" but I have not drawn it that far....looks like the strings are already past 90 degrees and the main bow is NOT flip-tipped.
Turtle....all the Penobscott bows only have a single string knock on the main bow....both strings go on the same one......backbow string goes around first then the main string over that one....
Thanks sieddy
You too ajooter >:D
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Rich,
"Magnum opus" 8) 8) 8) Bells and Whistles for sure...What a classy build man...That braced pic looks so balanced and perfect, the full draw say's it all...I can tell from the reflexed back bow and your bend that that Penobscot is a screamer...You got all of that one...How's it shoot and feel? The Penobscot you sent me was a very quiet bow also...
Don
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Cool bow.. That handle wrap, the belly scallops and the contrast between the dark skins and the osage color really set it apart from others. And on top of that it a penobscot which we rarely see posted here.
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Buddy i cant say what already hasnt. Truly a work of art. Not only are u a bowyer machine , a great guy and helluva artist. Those penobscot's and replica's u do are inspirational. Thank you for sharing your work.
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That is a real piece of work Rich! Great job. How does it shoot? Are you getting a feel for the advantages of such a design? My compliments to you for bringing to life what, for most of us would have just been a line drawing in some old book or something behind museum glass. ;)
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sure is a nice bow you got there Rich, Do you think that the double bow concept will bring extra speed to bow of normal length?
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Wow Rich. That is just awesome. I mean AWSOME!! I'm taking mine to the moontree gathering today to shoot that how much I like these bows. Keep up the good work.
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That turned out nice Rich, someone will be very happy. :)
Pappy
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Thanks for the compliments, appreciate it. Got 3 more "fancy" ones to build, then I'm going back to "plain" replicas.
rich
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That bow is absolutely wild! I've never seen a Penobscot bow before so I was really baffled until I saw the final pics.
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Fellas,
got the parts in Friday and got the saw back together. So we are back to Don and Jon's bows. The process here is to slowly reduce weight and tweek the bend shape alternately untill the bows are near desired draw weight at 20-22 inches of draw and have even bends going.....then they will get sinewed.
The scalloped Seneca is getting close and has the profile pretty close.....ready to start tillering it back. The heavyweight Penobscott needed to be shaped, straightened, then reshaped and final straightened. I want it to have some snake but not enough to affect the mechanics of the Penobscott it is ready now also to start tillering.
Here are the pics of the present condition.
rich
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Looking good. At the rate your cranking out bows I hope you ordered extra saw parts.
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Hey Rich,
I'm a bit late getting here!
You, sir are a master craftsman.
Great work and a privilege to watch the bows progress :)
Cheers
Del
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Turtle, you hit that nail right on the head sir.....between bow making and cutting down ironwood staves the old girl is about as tired as I am >:D >:D >:D (I got a bow of 10 on the thrust bearings ;D)
Thank you for the high praise Mr. Cat.....however I dont believe I'm a Master of anything, more a "jack of all trades"......I thought I'd build these in photos to make the point that just because I dont normally make "fancy" doesn't mean that I do not have the capability.....and I think I really do "owe" these fellas.
rich
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Looking real good Rich. Take a break dude :o
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Rich,
Like Jon said, looking good...That flipped tip scalloped Seneca has my blood boiling...Something about scallops have always intrigued me...And I have seen many of yours... 8) 8) 8)
Don
p.s. You "owe" me nothing buddy, your friendship, motivation and mentoring over the years cannot be bought...And oh yea, I would say your more than a couple of bows up on me ;)
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Thanks for the comments fellas but really not to worry guys.
Jon, makin bows is my taking a break 8) Besides, here shortly I'm gonna have to go and watch sinew dry ;D
Mr. Burchett, not about the "things" but you and Jon both been real good friends to me for a long time now and this is a small way of saying thank you and "I appreciate" all you fellas have done.... and thats just the plain truth of it sir.
rich
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Wow! Just wow...I've been a fan of your scalloped bows for a long time, but penobscots! Now that's too cool! Josh
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Mighty fine work Rich! Keep on scraping, I'm enjoying the show!
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Sweet stuf going on up north for sure
thanks for letting us ride along
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Here is where the bows are at now fellas.
The scalloped seneca is short tillered to about 70# right now.....needed an alignment tweek to keep from turning itself inside out.....but it's all good for the sinew tomorrow.
The Penobscott is short tillered to 65 pounds by itself also ready for the sinew on both bows. In picture 3 you can see the lower limb is slightly stiffer....that is because all the actual Penobscott bows I have pics of tend to have more set in that limb.....and I call always scrape a little off.
Tomorrow I will clean up the thin edges on all 3 bows and hopefully get sinew laid down. Here are current pics.
rich
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Sweeet looking bends Rich...Sweeeet, I'm going to go bananas waiting for the sinew to dry ;)
Don
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Take it easy Don.....We got sinew, skins, and carving to go yet sir... >:D I have been dreading the wait as well sir
rich
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Hey fellas,
After getting nurse-maided along by Jon W and Oglala Bowyer.....I tried my hand at spreading sinew. So after getting some ready ( glue/ sinew/small bows) I laid down some sinew....here are pics of how that turned out.
I used back sinew and laid it down from center to tip, then a second layer 4" shorter than the first and overlapped at the center, then a 3rd at the center. I sized the bows first and waited 45min/1 hr then the soaked sinew laid down, then glued over and repeated till done. After about an hour or so the whole deal was wrapped with cotton bandages in both directions, left for about 3-4 hrs, and then unwrapped......and took the pictures. These are not to my liking but I do feel good about the process so will sinew both of the "big" bows tomorrow.
rich
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Rich..... nice looking sinew job right thar......
DBar
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Amazing amount of work Rich! That sinew looks really nice.
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Thanks D Bar......if my bows turn as good as the arrows you made for me I'm gonna be a happy camper.
Thank you Plan B, this is my first sinew job, and had no idea what they were supposed to look like at this point......appreciate the feed back from both of you fellas.
rich
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Wow, Rich! You are a machine! Scalloped belly Osage? Very clever all the way around.
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Rich the sinew looks fine. If any problems arise just re-liquify the glue and make adjustments.
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Thanks Jon, appreciate the look-over sir. I am hoping that I was even enough on the pre-tiller and sinew application to make final tillering good good.
rich
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Fellas,
Just to update. I sinewed both of the "big" bows yesterday....one before and one after getting all my teeth pulled and the jaw bone ground down.....so here are the pics of the sinewed bows.
Thought I would add in some "candy" so you can see what I'm gonna do for the next couple/ three weeks.....thats the second set of pictures.
I was very lucky indeed to be gifted a quiver and 3 cased skins from Gutshot. The quiver is beaver and a very nice belt type for hunting and the cased skins are 2 fox and a river otter.....all just gorgeous.
To top that off I was further gifted a very nice cased Coon skin, and a super quality Knife blade from Trapper Rob. So now I get to makes some high end quivers and skinner while waiting for the sinew to cure out.
Thank you Gutshot and Trapper Rob from the bottom of my heart....wont forget you fellas.
rich
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next set
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Will look forward to whatcha do with those skins.
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Love the colors in that grey fox! You are a rich man!
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Wow! Very nice pelts.
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Hey Rich are those some Dzan Bar arrows in that beaver quiver
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Rich,
That sinew looks really smooth from here...Your putting a lot into these bows man...Noticed the carved tip also :o...All those hides and bows, looks like a scene out of Jeremiah Johnson 8) 8) 8)...Can't wait to see the end product!
Don
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Knoll, I'm putting up a pic of a badger quiver that I made a while ago (Mrs claimed it) And these pelts will go toward something similar. Basically "show" stuff. Except the Otter and I would like to make a case for a short bow and arrows in the same unit....need some more research
Thank you Jon, these are on the same order as the osage you gave me....perfect
Gutshot: they are indeed Danzen Bar arrows....they look real good in my beaver quiver (thank you sir) hanging next to the badger set.
Hey Don, Thanks for your sinew help sir.....I'm glad to have friends like you to get me through these "firsts". There is a lot of carving yet to go on your bow and Jons as well. That Eastern and Timber you sent me are really going to set these off.
rich
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Rich that badger quiver looks nice. Can't wait to see the other pelts finished into quivers
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Rich,
That quiver is outstanding! That would make your enemy stand back and look carefully :o....That's some real medicine buddy...
Don
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Well here is an update....
Laid that sinew 9 days ago, and it was dry. I'm reluctant to get into how I laid it down for fear of thread hijack.....so I will say it is whitetail back sinew and granulated hide glue.
I decided to use the short bow (ironwood) to go through the process I want to use on Dons scalloped bow, as well as the method of skinning the sinew on Jons 2 bows.
I started with a side strip from a big Timber that gutshot give me, I laid down a thin coat of TB-II and laid the damp skin, pressed it down with thumb pressure then wrapped with cotton bandage for 2 hrs. then unwrapped and razor trimmed.....the scallops require a lot of careful cutting for sure. Once the TB was set up I cleaned up the thin edges, cut the grooves between the scallops, then strung it and checked the tiller. It looks OK but will wait till it's fully shot in and tweek if necessary after I'm sure the sinew is all settled in. There are 3 sets of pics....will get a fulldraw up tomorrow. I got it back to 17" and estimate the weight as about 60#.
The Bow is ironwood (dead standing), 32", 3 backstraps for sinew, timber rattler, and a paint scheme from a Potawatomii bow....belly just plain wood.....the last picture is the bow in a quiver to show just how small it really is. Because of this little experiment I can now proceed with the bows for Don and Jon so enjoy the pics fellas.
rich
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more
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last batch
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Killer!
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very nice work Rich
DBar
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That thing is sweet rich!
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wow Rich that bow is cool. And. Short. I know how long that beaver quiver is. That bow can't be over 36". Long.
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Dangit Rich that is saweeet man...You got my blood boiling now man...Those scallops and that skin combo and the paint scheme are off the chain...I cant wait to see me and Jon's bows as they come along...If my Seneca looks have as wicked as that one I will be totally beside myself...Awesome work :o
Don
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Fellas,
Thanks for the comments, and here are full draw shots
Don, I believe your is gonna be way better sir, the eastern and carved edges should look REAL good, and hopefully Jons belly scallops and the skins will look nice as well.
rich
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Now that's a bendy handle bow.
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You are correct sir 8) But the tiller does need an upper limb tweek....showing up a little stiffer than the bottom at full draw.
Now on to the REAL bows,
rich
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Fellas,
Made some progress on Dons Seneca. First couple pics are the skins on and just a rough trim, then some close up's of the smoothed and carved thin edge. The last picture is what it looks like in artificial (indoor) light.
The skins were applied with hide glue, pressed down and wrapped with cotton bandages....and are so tite that you can see every hill&valley and nook&cranny in the sinew...The grip will be wrapped with whitetail rawhide and each tip will have a very thin wrap at the tip end of the skins. The rawhide dries real white so should give a good contrast to the skins and the red-oxide tips....do the wrapping today and finish the carving on the fineals.
rich
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rest of the pics
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Rich,
Drooooling on my keys man...That is some stunning craftsmanship and the color of that Eastern Diamondback is beautiful...What a piece of work buddy...You laid those skins down over that sinew super tight! Wow! :o
Don
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Glad you like it sir....it might get to be a bow one of these days.
rich
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Wow! Wow! Wow! Have I said Wow yet enough? Rich those skins look awesome! I don't know Don but I bet that man is smiling from ear 2 ear. I really like the groves you put in the side of the bow. Do those wrap around the belly and up on the other side too?
Don your a LUCKY man and I'm sure a great friend to Rich as well.
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Yea Gut, I am one lucky guy...Rich's friendship and mentoring over the years has been priceless...He has been an inspiration and has a lot of influence in my love for primitive archery...
Don
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Mr. Gutshot, the incised carving is only on the scalloped edge.....that is the way the original is. The back and other side of the bow are smooth. Dont know if you noticed or not but the Iroquois nations shot off the smooth side of the bow....but the Algonquian tribes shot from the scalloped side go figure.
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Wait, did you say you did all of that AFTER having major dentistry done on you? You're a bowmakin' fool, you know that? ;)
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Mr. Gutshot, the incised carving is only on the scalloped edge.....that is the way the original is. The back and other side of the bow are smooth. Dont know if you noticed or not but the Iroquois nations shot off the smooth side of the bow....but the Algonquian tribes shot from the scalloped side go figure.
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Them Indians they just grab a bow and shoot a buffalo. They probably didn't care which way they held or shot a bow. Since they didn't have a Walmart to go and get food. I would go out on a limb and say it didn't matter how they held it they where masters of shooting them fast and accurate. And all we do is try to be like them. By making these wooden bows and trying to shoot them as correctly as we can. Man it's the most addictive thing I've ever done. You know you got the fever when all you think about is trying to build a bow better then the last one. Or in your case build replicas of all the tribes bows. Which I am really taking a liking too. Keep it up.
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Great bow and great quiver, really really nice. And great thread, thank you!
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Thank you for the nice comments folks. When these 2 get done there is one more got to go down to Kentucky.
Thought I would show what I have tried for a grip. It is the rattles of this snake and 5" of skin still attached, so as I wrapped the wet rawhide I wove in the skin so the rattles hang just below the bow hand. I thought that if I put it down (or up) by the tip it would be catching on brush or other thick cover so tried this idea just for looks.....still debating weather or not I like it. Here's the pics so far.
rich
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I think it looks real sharp!
I can't imagine someone dragging that bow through brush.
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Rich,
We need a like button here! I will cradle it through the brush ;)
Don
P.S. Looks like some real lethal medicine bud... 8) 8) 8)
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Emmet, I sure as hell hope it gets dragged through the brush....cause thats where the deer are 8)
Mr. Burchett, I'm still not sure because this rawhide isn't coming out opaque white, it is staying natural and semi-transparent.....the finishing touches will be the mud, the blood, and the fat & hair !!!
Thanks again for the wonderful responses.
rich
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Rich I like that grip. real good thinking there.
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Rich, outstanding work. I like the rattles.
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Well fellas, I got the seneca done....except for the linen string. We are still in the middle of a 3 day blizzard so you will get the reg pics as soon as we can get outside.
These are some close up shots of all 4 sides cause the bow looks different from each side. The hair on the upper fineal is attached with twisted rawhide and moves like a bucket handle....so it may have to go due to noise ( the hard rawhide will bang pretty loud on hardwood) but that will be up to Don. Here are a bunch of pics untill I get outside.
rich
PS: thanks swampman and gutshot appreciate it.
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more
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last
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Great lookin' bow. And REALLY like the "hairy" tip.
3-day blizzard! Spring in the midwest . . . . often interesting.
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Rich,
A ways back you mentioned "Magnus opus"...You weren't play'n...I'm speechless right now...The scallops, skins, rawhide handle and wraps, carved fineals and paint look amazing and I can't wait to get my hands on that bow...That bow has some strong medicine and a one of a kind personality :o :o :o
Thank you Richard !!!
Don
P.S. I will name that one "Strong Medicine" if that's ok...
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Beautiful in every way Rich!
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Thank you for all the nice comments, I really appreciate them.
Don, The "carrier" names the weapon....so that sounds good to me. I will get some better close up pics so ya can see the detail better.
rich
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Wow, just WOW!
Rich, you are the man!
Patrick
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Rich your gonna have a hard time topping that bow. When you said all the bells and whistles you meant it. I like those carvings along with everything else. If don names it bad medicine then his name has to be the Medicine Man. He will deliver the Bad Medicine to the deer with it
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Rich,
Would love to see them close up pics of the tips and paint while it's all drying...How's Jon's bow coming along?
Don
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Hey Don,
Will have the close-up pics and Jons bow progress this evening sir....We had a 3 day blizzard, one clear day (but only 1 degree) and now we got another 2 day blow maybe another 8-10 inches.....gettin a little sick of snow about now >:D >:D >:D
rich
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Hey Half Eye, I am new to bow making, been making some board bows learning as I go. I have met up with a fellow bow maker from Ithaca NY just 45 min north of me, he taught me a lot about working with Osage (it takes patience and a lot of work but I'll get it) mention to him that I am interested in making bows native to our area Finger Lakes region Iroquois nations and he said you were the man to talk to. I have just got on to this thread and I'm blown away with the work you do and the knowledge. So here goes how many different types of bows are there for this area, with in the five tribes six if you include Tuscarora. Also what types of wood was used.
Scott
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Mr. Scott, PM sent to you, sir.
rich
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Fellas,
The first 6 pictures are close-up pics of the Seneca that Don wanted to see (since he cant get the bow for a little bit longer. The next sets of pics are Jon's Penobscott....got it scalloped and the skins on. Next steps are to final trim the skins, and clean up the narrow edges and belly so we can get it put together. One difference in this Penobscott is the center 12 inches of the main bow is a "D" section (rounded belly) due to a small tear-out from where the stave was originally split out.
Should have some good progress here shortly.
rich
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more pics
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some more
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They are looking great Rich. Very nice work.
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Man I love the look of that osage with belly scallops and snake skin, cool bow Rich.
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Truly beautiful bows! Very impressive. Jawge
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Thank you for the nice comments fellas.
rich
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Beautiful bows for sure Rich. You inspire me to higher levels sir!
Mitch
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Rich,
Off the chain buddy 8) 8) 8) Love the way the rawhide handle came out! And Jon's belly scallops, my next Osage will have a go at this type...Thanks for the close up's man...Awesome work...And hurry up and dry allready >:D
Don
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Really glad you like it Don, wanted it to be special. 8) Sent ya a PM also...
rich
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BELLY scallops?!! Hope Jon has that one by MoJam time! Awesome.
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Oh my goodness Rich those belly scallops are awesom! Well let me start over all those bows are awesome. Keep it up, I'm gonna give you the name of Bow whisper
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Thank you Knoll, Gutshot really appreciate it.
Fellas,
Here are some pics of the grip wrap of Jon's bow. Originally I had wrapped it in raw-hide only, but undid that and re-wrapped with hemp, and then re-applied the rawhide over that. A couple of reasons for this.....first I was not sure the wet rawhide might do something not good to the sinew or skin covering, because it was not just wet but pulled very tight to boot, and second wanted the grip to be "hand filling" and these bows are very skinny.
Here are the pics
rich
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What kind of rawhide ya get there riiiiiiich? ;)
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Ajooter,
That would be white-tail deer sir. It is my understanding that it is tacked out and hand scraped. It holds a great deal of it's collagen and seems really tough.
rich
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Rawhide, sinew and hide glue...You have gone off the deep end Sir >:D I'm liking it...Nice looking Penebscot bow, I know Jon will be thrilled...Classy job
Don
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Thank you Don, getting to where I like the all natural better than the man made stuff. >:D
Fellas,
Here are the pictures of the 2 finished bows.....both are osage, carved, sinew backed, and skinned. Whitetail sinew from Eric (used whole) and hide glue for the sinew and skins, and whitetail rawhide for the grip wrap. In the case of the Penobscott the grip is rawhide over hemp twine. The Seneca has a Linen string (8 strands) waxed with beeswax, while the Penobscott has a artificial sinew string set for now....(waiting for the "gut" material to arrive)
The Seneca is 52" ntn, and between 65-68# @ 26....The Penobscott is 52-1/2 ntn, and at least 70+ @ 26". I can manage to string both bows but need some help to unstring them and cant draw either one much over half draw....so these guys have to shoot 'em in their own bad selfs.
One last one in the works for Mr. Gutshot, hope to get started this Tuesday or there abouts.
rich
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8) 8) 8)
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Rich,
Excellent work Sir...Both bows are awesome, sinew, paint, skins and all the bells and whistles... :o :o :o
Can't wait to shoot that Seneca in bud...52" of Osage, sinewed, 65@26 >:D Thank you for making this bow for me, I've been wanting one of your scalloped bows for a long time ;)
Don
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Those came out great rich!
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Thanks ajooter
Jon, Don really glad you like 'em so far.....we will have to see what ya think after ya get the little darlings >:D
rich
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Rich both bows are great work of art. I love the way you make them after relic bows from the past. Great Job.
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Awesome bows! Rich, you are turning out some great work these days. Enjoyed your post brother.
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Gutshot, thank you sir, and also a big thanks for all the materials you furnished to boot.
Mr. Rhodes, thank you sir....there are few guys who like 'em.
rich
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rich, those are museum quality. just awesome!
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Thank you Stix....not sure about that Museum quality stuff though :-[
Got some work done on Mr. Gutshot's bow. I'm wanting 50# at 26"....Only stave I had left was black locust so here are the details. Gut wanted rat snake skin on the bow so thats what is on it ( I believe the color is that of a Texas Rat Snake). Since the stave has some snake in it and the back has some "lumps and bumps" I decided to use belly scallops on it and just let the snake come out. It still needs to have the grip raw-hide wrapped as well as the tip/skin line and on this bow I'm going to paint just the scallops in alternating black and red as a Mohawk example I have seen. Will post up some more as it progresses....right now the bow sits at about 52# so once it's all dolled up I may need to do just a lite belly scrape to inch it down a tad.
Heres the pics fellas
rich
The skin is continuous so if Gut dont like the hide wrap he can just take it off....if he wants to.
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Wow rich thats NICE. If that's the rat snake I sent ya. It came from Eubank Ky. I picked it up on the road coming home from work last fall. Already dead it was
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That's gorgeous rich....I'm sure gut can man up and eek that extra 2# baack!
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Thanks Ajooter,
Gutshot, Thanks for that info...I looked 'em up and did not see any from the east that looked like that. It is indeed the one you sent sir and a damned fine specimen too!!!!
rich
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Rich,
I can tell from here that skin is down tight buddy...Awesome work and with the most efficient nocks in the world, gotta love them pins...Gut's gotta be excitied!!! Really nice 8) 8) 8)
Don
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Rich,
I can tell from here that skin is down tight buddy...Awesome work and with the most efficient nocks in the world, gotta love them pins...Gut's gotta be excitied!!! Really nice 8) 8) 8)
Don
I'm very excited Don. Can't wait to sling some Cain arrows through it
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Here is the progress pics fellas. I made the arrow rest from molded buffalo rawhide, then after it dried applied with a whitetail rawhide wrap. The arrow rest is about as hard as anything ya can get so should gives years of service. It's made like a floppy rest....it just dont flop. There is also a pic of the painted scallops.
At the skin / tip margins there is a decorative rawhide wrap but thin cut. In the pics the wraps are satill wet so need for them to dry up. All that remains is to get the red and black string from gutshot and add a fineal treatment to the upper limb tip. Also hopefully gutshot will let me know if he wants any of the rawhide painted, maybe red
rich
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rest of the pics
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Wow Rich I'm not deserving of a bow of that caliber. Truly a work of art. Lauren started on that string last night. I will get it in the mail today. And red sounds mighty good for that handle wrap.
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Very nice rich...I'll have to learn how to shoot lefty!
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Rich,
Those painted scallops? Absolutely off the chain man...Cool idea on the rawhide rest, you got me cogitating now...You can mold rawhide into just about any shape and then it will dry stone hard...Great idea and craftsman ship sir... 8)
Don
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Rich- You are probably getting tired of everyone oohing and aahing over these- but they all are fantastic looking. Keep the pictures coming.
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Jackson,
I appreciate the comments, even though they are somewhat embarrassing to me. I also dont usually make these types of bows, just trying to make them nice for these guys that have been very helpful and giving to me.
Gutshot,
For all ya done for me ya "deserve" a lot better than I can make sir. Besides we aint gonna really know till it's had the dog poop shot out of it.
Ajooter, after that bow you made for the trade....you dont need anybody making a bow for you, sir.
Don, I believe that you are correct sir. Think ya can make just about anything out of rawhide.....after talkin to ya I think I'm gonna try and make some arrow points out of the stuff....then me and you will know if there is some kind that will work for some type of hunting.
Thanks everybody for the comments.
rich
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So much work, Rich! You have a great sense of artistry. Very impressed.
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Rich I have made broadheads out of very thick rawhide. You can even double bevel the edge if it's thick enough. Soak it TB glue and it will penetrate.
Rich you and I are obviously friends sir. Even with that said, the effort you put into what you do makes you who you are.
"Bells and whistles" are just icing on the cake man.
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Jon,
You and I are indeed friends sir. We know that bows should be measured by how they shoot and nothing else. You and Don and Gutshot have been extremely generous to, and supportive of, me and just thought I'd put some lipstick on 'em....hoping that all of ya take 'em to the deer woods and use 'em up.
Thank you Parnell, but most of mine wont get a second look, these are exceptions sir. Doing something "special" for friends is not work sir.
rich
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8) Rich, I finally got that little sinew backed rascal strung and shot a few. Lotta wompass in that little shortie. Nobody around here to take full draw pics but I'll try to get outside and work the timer on the camera.
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Man thats a relief Fred...Whats your opinion after ya got her strung up? seems to settle right down to a smooth pullin little bow.
rich
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Fred,
Looking forward to a full draw on that bad boy...Rich put some reflex in eh? >:D
Don
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Well fellas,
Here is the end of the builds.....got Gutshots bow ready to ship, and got the string he had Ms. Lauren make for it. Color cordinated of course in red and black. Since I can almost put this bow there are the 3 regular shots....followed by a couple of close up shots showing the skin in the sun and the string on the bow. There is one add-on to the upper fineal, which I'm not showing so that some little part is a surprise.
Mr. Burchett, I am NOT responsible for all that reflex, sir >:D >:D >:D Ya need to speak with Mr. DuBois about that 8)
Hoped all of liked the build-along, sorry it took so long.
rich
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couple of closeup pics
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Rich once again you have out done yourself. 1st of all I would like to thank you. That is a outstanding peice of work you've done there. 2nd I will take that bow straight to the turkey woods to see if I can get a turkey this spring with it. 3rd it will for sure go to the deer woods this fall. Can't wait to shoot it and get use to shooting it. Thanks Rich
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That turned out awesome rich....those belly scallops remind me of a coral snake somewhat.
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Another great bow Rich. Great work.
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Gutshot, I'm glad that you like it sir.
Ajooter, thanks bud
Swampman, thank you
rich
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Damn fine bend Rich, wouldn't expect anything less Sir...I know Gut is as thrilled as Jon and myself and thank you for doing this for us bud...I'm like Gut, mine is going in the cypress swamp of Sparkleberry S.C. to do some real damage... 8) 8) 8) Again those scallops are intriguing to say the least...
Don
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Oh yea, don't think I didn't notice that point barely touching your index ;)
Don
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My first shot will be a ceremonial arrow sent as far out into the lake as it will go. Rich I'm not going to be easy on this bow. You and I both know that. I want to show others that these little NA bows are tools not display pieces.
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Thanks Don....give the Sparkleberry swamp deer hell bud.
Jon, I hope ya shoot her till she's wore out....we will get another one.....but osage and sinew should give ya a run for your money
Going to try and get 'em in the mail wed or thur....
rich
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That red and black painting and string is spot on! :-*
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Your work always inspires , add another thing to my bucket list, meet that Meechagan stick bender in person
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Thank you Jodocus, Gutshot has that bow now and I'm really glad that it suits him.
Jeff, long time no hear sir !!!! glad to see ya aint pushin up daisy's pilgrim 8) You will allways be welcome at my house sir.....be it deer that need killin or fish that need catchin.... 8) 8) 8)
rich
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I have really enjoyed this post and have learned a great deal. Your attention to detail is amazing. The snakeskins and artwork are beautiful. Thanks for taking the time to show us your work! Will B.
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BRIER SAID HI
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Thank you Will B, glad ya liked the post
Crooket, thanks man, same back to Briar
rich
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Just received my scalloped Seneca yesterday in a kit...Rich made a beautiful Otter Quiver also...I am blown away...I will do a more detailed post later after firing commences...
Rich, I know I said thanks a thousand times but thanks again man...It is cherished...
Don