Author Topic: Strength exercises  (Read 29531 times)

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Rod

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2009, 08:48:12 am »
As you say, what you describe is a natural consequence of drawing to a length that is greater than the length you can achieve whilst remaining in-line.

What I was describing was the means of drawing efficiently, not the consequence of drawing beyond your in-line draw-length.

In this case the difficulty in control is one of allowing rotation in the loose which can be prone to throwing the string hand up or out as the elbow goes round or down out of line during the loose.

Given that my corner of the mouth length is a little over 29" I would not have too much trouble holding a line at 32", whereas someone with shorter arms might be obliged to roll out of line with this shaft length.
This rotation off-line then comes into play for me at draw-lengths longer than 32".
 
Whilst it is true that post Horace Ford the shorter draw has become the prevalent style in lawn archery, it should perhaps be noted that the long draw is not entirely unknown still in these quarters, but that the shorter draw is employed where ease of precise alignment under the dominant eye is prioritised over maximising cast.

But this is only of any real benefit to those who can also control their length and loose and consequently have precise control over their arrow speed, and still have sufficient cast to obtain a useful mark.

It can also be noted that amongst heavy bow shooters, the draw weight itself is often instrumental in pulling the wrist into line during the draw, which is as it should be if the draw is intitiated with a bent wrist.

That someone with shorter arms or a shaft longer than their in line draw, is obliged go through from being in-line to out of line as they rotate the elbow out of line through the loose is another matter entirely, and only natural, since you can only go so far back in-line until you are obliged to drop or take the elbow round out of line.

As it affects accuracy the trick is then to let the elbow go round or down in further extension without throwing the hand out of line before the arrow departs.

Rod.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 09:13:44 am by Rod »

Offline robby

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2009, 09:50:13 am »
Swamp Bow, Technique is important. A relatively small man with proper technique and practice can out draw a muscle man, with no technique and practice, any day of the week. If you are determined and, shoot a lot, these things will come to you as naturally as learning to walk. I have never found one exercise that can truly prepare you for shooting a heavy bow other than shooting a heavy bow. However you have to get yourself into some kind of shape to even start on that journey. One thing I found when I was starting out is that there is no one set of muscles that you can develop alone. It has to be the whole body, even the legs. A form of exercise that, to me anyway, was as beneficial as anything is the simple push-up. You carry the equipment with you and can drop and crank out fifty or more in less than a minute, done throughout the day, and varying the placement of your hands, far apart, close together, ahead of your body mass, on flat hands, on your fists, the variety is endless. Always use good form and technique, slacking only cheats yourself. The thing is you don't want to build one line of muscle, spread the wealth. You can do it anywhere, who cares what people think. Another thing I use to do was grab two or three bows of lesser weight and practice drawing, its terribly uncomfortable, but makes handling A single heavy bow seem so much more manageable. I hope this helps a little, and good luck!
Robby

Offline ratty

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2009, 11:33:09 am »
hello Swamp Bow  ;)

here's my tip.

do regular exercise to keep fit ,and shoot regular. increase your bow weight when you feel confident.

draw as large as you can. ive been known to draw & shoot arrows of over 34" and i'm 5ft 9"

as seen in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBUlQ0vvLw&feature=player_profilepage#

respond to your bodys pain, and adjust your shooting accordingly. :)



copying other peoples shooting techniques is a good idea, there are plenty of vids on youtube to watch. :)

there are many better archers than my self, and many not as good, but with better technical techniques. so i think its a thing you need to develop intune with your own body

anyway goodluck.   8)


ps. i completely agree with this statement by yeomanbowman .

(It is very difficult for me to prove but I find it hard to believe there was one universal style of draw in the medieval/Tudor period.)

here's one of my favorite paintings of medieval archers about to draw there bows


  [IMG]http://picture removed due to possible copyright issues
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 11:11:56 am by ratty »

Offline Swamp Bow

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2009, 06:28:38 pm »
Robby/Ratty,  I think you are right.  Lots of shooting with lower poundage bows, and limited "pushing it" with higher poundage bows.  I'll just take it nice and slow.

Been an interesting discussion all the way around.  Carry on...

Thanks

Swamp
From the middle of a swamp in SW Florida.

Offline Davepim

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2009, 04:41:00 am »
hello Swamp Bow  ;)

here's my tip.

do regular exercise to keep fit ,and shoot regular. increase your bow weight when you feel confident.

draw as large as you can. ive been known to draw & shoot arrows of over 34" and i'm 5ft 9"

as seen in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBUlQ0vvLw&feature=player_profilepage#

respond to your bodys pain, and adjust your shooting accordingly. :)



copying other peoples shooting techniques is a good idea, there are plenty of vids on youtube to watch. :)

there are many better archers than my self, and many not as good, but with better technical techniques. so i think its a thing you need to develop intune with your own body

anyway goodluck.   8)


ps. i completely agree with this statement by yeomanbowman .

(It is very difficult for me to prove but I find it hard to believe there was one universal style of draw in the medieval/Tudor period.)

here's one of my favorite paintings of medieval archers about to draw there bows


 

Hi Simon,
    I have been searching for that picture of the archers drawing-up for ages. Where does it come from exactly? I remember it from the old warbow forum.

Dave

Rod

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2009, 07:49:27 am »
That's the picture featured in Strickland and Hardy's book, where Strickland says that he thinks it an artistic misrepresentation and not a practical method of drawing a heavy bow.

Which would be news to an oriental warrior, although the representation here is too vertical and leaning back to be considered an accurate representation.

Whilst there are probably as many variations in technique and preferences as there are archers, what always remains are methods that are mechanically/physically advantageous using our physical structure which can usefully define our preferences.

At the end of the day it's all about context. There is no method you can come up with however peculiar, that has not probably been a legitimate method somewhere, someplace, sometime.
But in the real world when a culture using a weak method meets an aggressive culture using a strong method, the weak change their ways or go under.

By any useful definition, a strong method will provide the mechanical/physical least work solution that minimises effort and so enhances endurance and control.
To my mind this is the soundest basis for a preference.

Rod.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 08:16:55 am by Rod »

Yewboy

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2009, 08:16:34 am »
Yeah its also interesting to see that the bows are inside out with the white sap wood on the inside or belly and the red heart wood on the back of the bow, Just goes to show you can't always trust in Naiive art from the period.

Rod

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2009, 08:20:13 am »
That and the fact that the arrows are yet again on the wrong side of the bow...  ;-)

Rod.

Offline ratty

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2009, 11:10:22 am »
Yeah its also interesting to see that the bows are inside out with the white sap wood on the inside or belly and the red heart wood on the back of the bow, Just goes to show you can't always trust in Naiive art from the period.

i agree steve.

ive often thought about this shooting from the right had side of the bow and the 2 fingered draw.


in some pictures / paintings a thumb draw can look very much like the 2 fingerd draw, and and viser verser, coupled with shooting from the right hand side of the bow makes me wonder if there is some link or influence to the painters at the time period that we dont know about.

(not for one second am i saying this is fact, but it has been food for thought for me)

as for the bows being insideout you've got me there lol. seems to be a commen misstake for artists of the period.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 11:23:32 am by ratty »

Offline robby

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2009, 04:08:09 pm »
Ratty, That is a really cool video on your signature, makes me want to go uot and shoot some more!

Offline Davepim

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2009, 04:44:23 am »
How can a medieval painting be subject to copyright? ???

Offline CraigMBeckett

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2009, 09:00:53 am »
The painting is not and cannot be subject to copyright, but the image used may well be subject to its own copyright.

Craig.

Offline Davepim

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2009, 11:59:40 am »
The painting is not and cannot be subject to copyright, but the image used may well be subject to its own copyright.

Craig.

Yes but it is EXTREMELY difficult to verify the origin of a digital image; even a fractional resizing and/or cropping of the image makes it essentially untraceable!

Rod

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2009, 12:34:57 pm »
Yeah its also interesting to see that the bows are inside out with the white sap wood on the inside or belly and the red heart wood on the back of the bow, Just goes to show you can't always trust in Naiive art from the period.

i agree steve.

ive often thought about this shooting from the right had side of the bow and the 2 fingered draw.


in some pictures / paintings a thumb draw can look very much like the 2 fingerd draw, and and viser verser, coupled with shooting from the right hand side of the bow makes me wonder if there is some link or influence to the painters at the time period that we dont know about.

(not for one second am i saying this is fact, but it has been food for thought for me)

as for the bows being insideout you've got me there lol. seems to be a commen misstake for artists of the period.



It is probably nothing more than either laxity in the part of the artist or an inconsistent hang over from the old convention of having the subject matter facing the viewer.
But I think it more likely to be carelessness and not considering it important enough to worry about on the part of the artist.

Rod.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 11:15:16 am by Rod »

Offline Heiner

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Re: Strength exercises
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2009, 02:22:45 pm »
As for the origin of the picture:

Martin le Franc: Le Champion des dames
Bibliotheque royale de Belgique, about 1441/1442

Source: The Great Warbow by Hardy, Strickland

Regards,
Heiner
Institio regressum significat.