Author Topic: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs  (Read 23385 times)

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Offline Badger

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2015, 03:48:09 pm »
      I beieve the existing flight organization is primarily focused on modern flight, possibly as it should be. The regular flight bows you guys make and shoot are the true spirit of flight shooting. Our forefathers would love to see it pushed to its limits. My personnal favorite era is the 1930's and 1940's, I am not thinking so much primitive as much as I am natural material bows. I figure a group consience here will end up dictating the rules and we will do our best individually to get our own influence into it. Have you noticed how much I argue my points? LOL.

Offline avcase

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2015, 04:34:39 pm »
I disagree that the existing organization is primarily focused on modern flight. The current organization purpose is only on supporting Flight Archery first and foremost. Primitive is a critical component of this. The purpose of USA Archery/World Archery Flight is to provide support and structure to accommodate a variety of styles within Flight Archery. But I should move this to another topic. Sorry, I got derailed. Where were we?

Alan

Offline Badger

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2015, 04:58:32 pm »
        Alan, I believe the topic does belong here. This is one of the reasons I have been so pleased that you are now on the flight committee. I expect Dan will weigh in here soon and give us some of his feelings on the subject. Protecting the viability of current records is important and I highly respect it while at the same time recognize a need for a few changes. The longer we go ( it has allready been a considerable amount of time) the harder it will become. Input from current record holders in the present organization should obviously be respected. My feelings might raise some eyebrows but in good consience I can't really feel any other way. I don't feel the current records have reached a level that is even close to what we should be shooting. Most likely a lack of competition has contributed to this. I know that on any given day with a good arrow, good conditions and a decent bow I have a good chance of breaking records. Dan Perry's elb record is probably the only one that I am really impressed with but I don't feel that should even be a class in regular flight shooting because we are forced to modify how an elb should be built to perform like a flight bow.

       I don't think as a group we have been hard enough on ourselves to make tough choices about things. We all like each other too much. In the long run what are the best options for the sport? In all honesty I really enjoy how it is now, it is the highlight of my year. I think only relatively small changes could improve things.

Offline Dan Perry

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2015, 11:32:53 pm »
I am conflicted over the 14 inch arrow idea, but only as it relates to traditional bow designs. For a primitive freestyle class, it think it is OK. Some of the committee members didn't want to duplicate current modern classes with natural materials.

Offline Dan Perry

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2015, 11:36:31 pm »
For 24 inch arrows out of 50# bows, my best arrows seemed to be between 160 and 180 grains.

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2015, 09:36:07 am »
My opinion is that what is good for one should be good for all
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

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Offline Dan Perry

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2015, 04:26:54 pm »
I can relate the that opinion. I just try to picture the application for a traditional long bow class.

Offline Badger

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2015, 06:31:29 pm »
  Dan, have you had a chance to read through most of the topics yet. I know you came in late. I am interested in your opinion of a new primitive only organization, not to replace the other but to promote it.

  One part would be regular flight shooting just as we do it today with a few minor changes and the other would be the tradtional aspect which is really more of a bowyers class to compare bows as opposed to all aspects of flight shooting. The traditionals side would take the place of broadhead shooting and hopefully we can agree to use an arrow weight per pound of draw weight. This really would eliminate the need for weight classes. Or maybe just have below or above 60#.

Offline Dan Perry

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2015, 03:39:31 am »
Steve,

I have looked around a little,tried to answer a question or two, and given some encouragement and input. That is about it though. haven't read much.

Grain per pound still requires measuring the arrow and the bow. Broad head was flight for practical aplication. Bows that would be used for hunting. Arrows with enough fletching to stabilize a practical arrow.

Grains per pound really is a bowyer game. I am not against it. it still sounds fun.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2015, 01:14:15 pm »
How do we measure draw length on ELBs and primitives shot off the hand? Arrow length still?
Doubtless this info is elsewhere and I've just missed it :-[ Sorry.
Del
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Offline avcase

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2015, 01:40:23 pm »
Under USAA rules, draw length for weigh-in of flight bows has been standardized regardless of bow type. For those bows with an arrow shelf or arrow rest, the bow is drawn until the tip of the longest arrow falls free of the rest or shelf.

For bows without an arrow shelf, the bow is drawn until the arrow tip is able to fall behind the belly side of the bow at the arrow pass.

Alan

Offline Badger

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2015, 01:56:44 pm »
  What about paper or vellum for fletches? waterproofing shellac or?

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2015, 02:41:43 pm »
Cheers for that clarification Alan :)
Del
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Offline Dan Perry

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2015, 03:17:10 pm »
Harry Drake tries parchment and water buffalo horn vanes. They seemed to break a lot.

Offline Lukasz Nawalny

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Re: Flight arrow design & tradeoffs
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2015, 05:02:55 pm »
today I finish my best arrow so far for my turkish 70 lb at 25 inch. Made of hickory carya laciniosa. It is very stiff and middle weight wood, very differend from normal heavy and elastic hickory. i have made few longbows from this wood but I had problems with chrysals. Arrow 25 " mass 196 grain, deflex 0,59 " bigest diameter 0,245 ". Now only parchment and big effort :)