Author Topic: A good example of no set tillering  (Read 11046 times)

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Offline Badger

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A good example of no set tillering
« on: September 25, 2017, 11:10:53 am »
I am working on a low elevation yew bow right now. About 1 1/2" wide and 68" long. I was skeptical about the width being too narrow starting off but I decided to go with a 50# projection anyway. The bow has a 10" stiff handle and fade section with slightly over 2" in reflexed tips. I usually keep a bow like this on the long string until I reach 50#@24". When I hit 50#@22" I thought I lost about 1#in set but wasn't sure I read my scale right so went ahead and tillered out to 23" at which point I was more careful about reading my scale at the benchmark of 17". After drawing to 23" and coming back to 17" and rechecking again there was no doubt it dropped another pound. The mass was also falling too low at this point from a projected mass of 22 oz down to 20 oz and I still had a ways to go. I decided to drop my target weight to 35# instead of 50#. Will update with the results. The measured set at this point is 1/8".

Offline BowEd

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 11:17:21 am »
Nice evaluation sequence Steve.Thanks for sharing.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline willie

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 12:02:36 pm »
Knowing how much adjustment to make when one first notices the changes, is where experience comes in handy. Thanks for the numbers. Do you think that there might be a formula for that?

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 12:18:23 pm »
thank you Steve,, evey time you explain ,,, I understand more and more and am able to incorporate into what I am doing,

Offline Stick Bender

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 12:31:29 pm »
Thanks Steve I appreciate the posts not commenting much but following your method !
If you fear failure you will never Try !

Offline JonW

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 12:45:00 pm »
Steve how do you aproach target weight tillering?

Offline Badger

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 01:16:15 pm »
Steve how do you aproach target weight tillering?

  John, I always start out with a target weight in mind. I think my method might be somewhat of a time waster but it seems to work for me pretty well and maybe only adds a couple of hours to a bow. Instead of floor tillering to first brace I have started going to the long string much sooner. Once I get just a little flex in the bow I go to the long string. The first thing I do is even up the tiller even though I know I have a long way to go, I want to start off as even as possible. Each time I pull the bow on the tree I pull to full target weight. I stop a few inches short of target weight to set a benchmark for weight. Lts say I am reading 36#@14" on the long string. I go straight to 50# at whatever length that is and pull it several times and then I go back to the 14" mark to see if the weight changed, if the weight changed I reevaluate the bow, I either look for places I can get more wood bending or lower my target weight expectations. This year I built 3 English longbows using this method, all 3 took no set and all three broke world records for distance. The hundred pounder beat the existing record by about 40 yards and it was a much lighter bow.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 01:47:00 pm »
wow thats imprssive,,, I would say it worth the time and effort

so it it starts taking set on long string, how much do you lower your target weight..there was one thread where you expained how to see the max,, target weight,, I cant find it,,

Offline DC

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 01:55:02 pm »
I am working on a low elevation yew bow right now. About 1 1/2" wide and 68" long. I was skeptical about the width being too narrow starting off but I decided to go with a 50# projection anyway. The bow has a 10" stiff handle and fade section with slightly over 2" in reflexed tips. I usually keep a bow like this on the long string until I reach 50#@24". When I hit 50#@22" I thought I lost about 1#in set but wasn't sure I read my scale right so went ahead and tillered out to 23" at which point I was more careful about reading my scale at the benchmark of 17". After drawing to 23" and coming back to 17" and rechecking again there was no doubt it dropped another pound. The mass was also falling too low at this point from a projected mass of 22 oz down to 20 oz and I still had a ways to go. I decided to drop my target weight to 35# instead of 50#. Will update with the results. The measured set at this point is 1/8".

Had you continued on the 50# road and hang the set, how do you think the the bow would perform compared to the 35# version? Looking at it from a hunting point of view and also a flight point of view? Also is there a chance that the 35# bow would just flat out shoot a setty 50# bow.

Offline Badger

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 02:06:37 pm »
I am working on a low elevation yew bow right now. About 1 1/2" wide and 68" long. I was skeptical about the width being too narrow starting off but I decided to go with a 50# projection anyway. The bow has a 10" stiff handle and fade section with slightly over 2" in reflexed tips. I usually keep a bow like this on the long string until I reach 50#@24". When I hit 50#@22" I thought I lost about 1#in set but wasn't sure I read my scale right so went ahead and tillered out to 23" at which point I was more careful about reading my scale at the benchmark of 17". After drawing to 23" and coming back to 17" and rechecking again there was no doubt it dropped another pound. The mass was also falling too low at this point from a projected mass of 22 oz down to 20 oz and I still had a ways to go. I decided to drop my target weight to 35# instead of 50#. Will update with the results. The measured set at this point is 1/8".

Had you continued on the 50# road and hang the set, how do you think the the bow would perform compared to the 35# version? Looking at it from a hunting point of view and also a flight point of view? Also is there a chance that the 35# bow would just flat out shoot a setty 50# bow.

  Thats a good question, If the set happened at 24" with a bow braced I might keep going 1" at a time and if it only developed a total of say 1" set or lost no more than 5# due to set I would still have a nice shooting bow. If I am building a flight bow I really try to go for almost zero, like no more than 2 or 3# loss total.

  I will give you a more dramatic example, years ago I went to a walk the talk fastest bow contest. I brought several bows along. One of them was tillered out to 24" and shooting 10 grains at 175fps which was the fastest I had ever gotten for that draw length. Once the event started I realized it was a pain to readjust the machine to 24" so i told them to go ahead and draw it out and test at 28", well the bow only gained 2# and was still shooting at 175 at 28" still decent but all the super performance was lost overdrawing what the bow could actually take.

Offline leonwood

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 02:31:57 pm »
Thanks for all your great explanations! I am totally committed to try this on my next bow!

Offline Badger

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 02:38:17 pm »
  One thing I think I have mentioned but if not I will say it again. If you know the wood and know the design and you know it to be well within the limits of the wood there is no need for a no set tillering procedure. Once I establish a good design and width to work with I don't stick to very strictly because I have confidence in the design. I like it mainly when working outside my comfort zone or when I am trying to zero in on best dimensions for a given design.

Offline JonW

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 04:55:39 pm »
  One thing I think I have mentioned but if not I will say it again. If you know the wood and know the design and you know it to be well within the limits of the wood there is no need for a no set tillering procedure. Once I establish a good design and width to work with I don't stick to very strictly because I have confidence in the design. I like it mainly when working outside my comfort zone or when I am trying to zero in on best dimensions for a given design.

I guess when all is said and done this is how I tiller. I can usually achieve less than an inch of set. Sometimes better than that.

Offline DC

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 05:08:42 pm »
  One thing I think I have mentioned but if not I will say it again. If you know the wood and know the design and you know it to be well within the limits of the wood there is no need for a no set tillering procedure. Once I establish a good design and width to work with I don't stick to very strictly because I have confidence in the design. I like it mainly when working outside my comfort zone or when I am trying to zero in on best dimensions for a given design.

How often does a piece of wood surprise you? I would have swore that you could have got a 50# bow out of a piece of yew like that. But then I haven't made many 50# bows. More like 40's.

Offline Badger

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Re: A good example of no set tillering
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 08:55:55 pm »
I could have gotten 50# but not maintained the reflex I wanted, as an elb I could have easily gotten 50#.