Author Topic: Best plan for this knot?  (Read 6155 times)

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Offline Taxus brevifolia

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2018, 06:11:46 pm »
Fortunately it's not ERC although I would consign this particular stave to fire-board service.

Why is that, because of the knot?

Offline PatM

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2018, 06:55:34 pm »
Yeah, I don't use wood with any knots.

Offline Taxus brevifolia

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2018, 01:24:22 am »
I understand. I do have some nice knot-free staves, but as I said I'm going to produce at least one well tillered bow before I risk a good stave. They're too hard to find, let alone the work involved in the harvest

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2018, 04:03:12 am »
Taxus,

It's 530 EST. I'm going  hunting. I typed a long version and lost it. This is the condensed version. :)

I don't spend too much time typing as I find people don't read long posts.

I'm not sure you'll get a bow from that stave. I'm not sure I would and I've made 2-300 bows some with several knots over close to 30 years of bowyering.  A large knot that takes up much of the width can be problematic. One must compensate for the knot with wood but you cannot.

Try a good straight grained board of red oak or hickory. I wish I started that way.

I chose your route and  I learned a lot but it was tedious and took quite awhile to get a hunting weight shooter. I wish I had started with a board to at least get a shooter but the prevailing wisdom of the time said kiln dried wood doesn't make a bow. Ha!

If you must, tiller the stave to not bend much in relation to the rest of the limb in the knotted area.

Check my site.

http://traditionalarchery101.com/archer.html

Jawge
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 08:09:36 am by George Tsoukalas »
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Taxus brevifolia

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2018, 03:22:45 am »
Jawge, I will always read every word anyone here takes the time to post in response to my queries. I can't adequately express my gratitude for this wonderful resource and access to the country's most prolific and experienced primitive bowyers.

I have to say though, it doesn't seem like a very big knot. I left a lot of wood around it, but it's tiny. I thought it might be a benefit to have it dead center midlimb.

Maybe I need to better show it. I'll get a bit of video.

Here, I took it down with a ferrier's rasp. Left it thick though.

https://youtu.be/FPq6HPSclOM

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2018, 06:07:17 am »
I don't have any idea what type of bow can be produced from the incense Cedar. The knot shown to me doesn't seem to be of huge concern. I think the original pictures made it look far more dramatic than it actually seems to be. I personally would carry on. You've got a considerable amount of effort put into this stave already. I agree with Del. Usually when I see that black ring around the knot it's a lose one. I usually just pop em out. I follow the side grain around them leaving the bow wider where the knot is. As Jawge says like water flowing around a stone in a creek. For this I like to mark grain with a pencil and then use my draw knife to follow side grain around knot. Some wood this works great and some not so much. I remove the belly wood over the knot like you did with rasp. Draw knife tends to tear out chunks. Then I use scraper to smooth belly up a bit. I find if I get good dependable grain that "flows" around the knot, I can make the entire area bend nearly as much as the rest of the limb.
I might be a bit crazy, but I like a challenge. I've been told many times in my life that I was wasting my time. I would have never started knapping, making arrows or building bows if I'd have taken it to heart. Even after I figured out how to do all that and improved my equipment and shooting ability I was still constantly told "Your wasting your time, Your never going to shoot a deer with that". Sometimes I don't listen so good. Sometimes I find out their right. All the cases above they were wrong.
I love ya Pearl. No offense here buddy. I think I understand what your saying and I'm questioning the wood type to, but I'm going to respectfully disagree and tell you sir to carry on. It's very possible that your efforts prove unsatisfactory. I don't think them a waste of time though if you learn something from them. Even if what you learn is that it was a waste of time.lol.
Bjrogg
Not sure if I picked the right picture but tried to give example of grain "flowing" around knot
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 07:08:01 am by bjrogg »
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Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2018, 07:10:55 am »
Taxus, I know you do.
So can you leave extra wood around the knot?
Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Taxus brevifolia

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2018, 08:17:16 pm »
My cup runneth over

Yes I've left it fat and I'll let some the work pass through that area so it will bend less there.

When I cut the stave I could have had it knot free
But it would have been much narrower
I think this sort of wood favors broader designs

Offline Taxus brevifolia

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2018, 12:38:20 am »
I'll be tillering it mostly with sandpaper.

This is from that tree I thought was a juniper when I cut it last June.

Very similar, and it's a joy to work with. Dry as it is now, it shaves like wet green juniper.

Since I got a new drawknife, and built a shave horse, shaving this stave down to where it is now has me addicted to the drawknife. It's a 5" Flexcut

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2018, 09:00:31 am »
Very nice. Have fun. That's what is important.
Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Taxus brevifolia

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2018, 08:15:56 am »
Thank you Jawge. Once I have this one tillered I'll be able to relax and get more started. I've ruined enough of them to be gun shy, but this will pass.

In the time I've been hanging out here at PA, which is since early last spring, in this time I haven't produced a single bow yet whilst many of you have produced multiple units. I need this!

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2018, 09:53:33 am »
Thank you Jawge. Once I have this one tillered I'll be able to relax and get more started. I've ruined enough of them to be gun shy, but this will pass.

In the time I've been hanging out here at PA, which is since early last spring, in this time I haven't produced a single bow yet whilst many of you have produced multiple units. I need this!
It's the journey that sometimes teaches more than the destination.
I just spent 2 weeks making a warbow that exploded on the tiller at 120# .... not quite sure what it taught me yet ;)
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2018, 01:00:40 pm »
Thank you Jawge. Once I have this one tillered I'll be able to relax and get more started. I've ruined enough of them to be gun shy, but this will pass.

In the time I've been hanging out here at PA, which is since early last spring, in this time I haven't produced a single bow yet whilst many of you have produced multiple units. I need this!

Sir, I know that feeling well.
If you’ve had several failed attempts without completing a shooter, and need a success, I highly recommend you get your hands on a clean hickory stave and whittle out a 64-70” bow. That would be low stress for an , in my opinion, nearly indestructible bow wood.
My first hickory bow was high stress, short, fades were all wrong and had at least one suspect hinge and It held together. I completely understand the desire to produce certain types of bows, but having a shooting bow in hand will build confidence and stoke the fire. Another positive is that having a shooter with faults allows you to closely analyze the faults without it blowing to pieces and guessing at the problem.
 Just my .02˘

Offline gfugal

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2018, 06:16:54 pm »
Thank you Jawge. Once I have this one tillered I'll be able to relax and get more started. I've ruined enough of them to be gun shy, but this will pass.

In the time I've been hanging out here at PA, which is since early last spring, in this time I haven't produced a single bow yet whilst many of you have produced multiple units. I need this!

Sir, I know that feeling well.
If you’ve had several failed attempts without completing a shooter, and need a success, I highly recommend you get your hands on a clean hickory stave and whittle out a 64-70” bow. That would be low stress for an , in my opinion, nearly indestructible bow wood.
My first hickory bow was high stress, short, fades were all wrong and had at least one suspect hinge and It held together. I completely understand the desire to produce certain types of bows, but having a shooting bow in hand will build confidence and stoke the fire. Another positive is that having a shooter with faults allows you to closely analyze the faults without it blowing to pieces and guessing at the problem.
 Just my .02˘

Yes, on top of moving twice, starting grade school, and having a 1 one year old, I too have been gun shy of late. Once life calms down a bit, I'm going to go for a simple long limbed hickory. If you need a bow to work > would hold off on the incense cedar for when you can take a loss if it happens to fail.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline Taxus brevifolia

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Re: Best plan for this knot?
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2018, 11:41:48 pm »
I have been tempted to find a hickory stave, but since I've got plenty of yew and juniper, and a little ocean spray, I'll be sticking to these local species (Southern Oregon). The yew will be ready soon. I've also got more incense cedar, a piece perfect for cutting two limbs to be joined at the handle. I'm looking forward to that, being able to join limbs EXPONENTIALLY increases to number of viable staves to be found and harvested. It's a skill I plan to become good at.