Author Topic: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues  (Read 3176 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« on: October 25, 2019, 06:31:25 pm »
So, here's my first test set with bare shafts.  Weights are written on the shaft.  Cut to 31", 145g points.


Despite the weird camera angle, the 40 is showing slightly heavy, the 35 quite a bit light.  Clay Hayes says to cut your shafts long, go with the one that's slightly light, and shorten it.  So, that's what I'm trying.

Narrowing it down, with similar results.  Again, pardon the weird camera angle; the little red stump at the bottom is perpendicular for reference:


Cut the 35 pounder down 1/2 inch.  The purple shaft is perpendicular for reference:



Took off another quarter inch; off to go shoot it a couple times and see what happens.  Stay tuned...

Thomas
~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2019, 06:34:59 pm »
I guess I should add I'm not really worried about groups at this point.  Just trying to find the spine that flies the straightest.  Shooting at 12 yards.
~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2019, 06:45:28 pm »
30", looking better:

~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline TimBo

  • Member
  • Posts: 634
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2019, 07:42:34 pm »
"Stay tuned" indeed...yuk yuk yuk.  Looking good!

Offline burchett.donald

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,287
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2019, 08:09:43 am »
Thomas,
             Glad you are doing this, mainly because your a hunter...This will insure you have optimum penetration at close range, having the entire shaft pushing straight behind the head for those close shots...If I see an arrow kick out just the slightest amount it doesn't go in the hunting quiver...Bare shafting magnifies everything for you that you "can't" see even if you "think" your fletched shaft is flying perfect...I also like your idea of the perpendicular purple shaft for reference...
             You probably already know this but shoot each corrected shaft 5-10 times to get a mental picture of what it's doing...Bare shafting will also magnify any poor releases or anchor changes...
                                                                                                                   Don
Genesis 27:3 Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison;

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2019, 09:04:55 am »
Timbo, I honestly didn't see the pun.  But if I had, I'd have said it anyway.  ha ha ha

Donald--thanks.  That's what I'm thinking.  My arrows fly well enough with fletching, but the early wobbles can't do much for speed or penetration, especially on larger game--elk, moose, maybe even a bear some day.  Plus it's fun fiddling around with them, and it is some of the best work on form I've ever done.  You're right--one tiny wobble in my form and the arrow is all over the place!

Going to keep shooting and whittling down, shooting and whittling down, until the arrow is perfectly straight, or too short to shoot anymore.  If that happens, I guess I'll order some heavier heads, go to the 40# shaft and start over.
~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline burchett.donald

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,287
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2019, 09:36:37 am »
  Keep us posted on your findings Thomas...Your thread will help a lot of folks along the same trail...
                                                                                                                                                   Don
Genesis 27:3 Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison;

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2019, 12:44:03 pm »
Down to 29 1/2 inches this morning.  I think we have a winner!  Four in a row looked just like this at 12 yards:


Same arrow at 20 yards.  Bit of a side-wind kicking up--rushing to get this done before the forecasted snow storm this afternoon--but flying without a wobble, as far as I can see.  Red arrow is perpendicular for reference.




« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 12:50:26 pm by WhistlingBadger »
~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2019, 12:47:29 pm »
So, I think I can safely say that 35# spine at around 29" is what is going to work best with this bow.  Next step, besides shooting it a few more times once the wind calms down, will be to order a dozen sitka spruce shafts in this spine, tune up one of them to confirm my result and tweak the exact length if necessary, then get down to building arrows!   :NN

35# seems really light for a 60# bow, but the handle really is quite wide, especially with the braided leather wrap.  If they flies straight, I shoots 'em!

Thomas
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 04:34:04 pm by WhistlingBadger »
~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline burchett.donald

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,287
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2019, 04:29:40 pm »
     These hand made wood bows are never the same...So many variables come into play, handle width from center, design of bow, shooting style, various tillers and on and on and on will affect arrow deflection.........No AMO standards for my primitive set ups...What you done Thomas was tune your arrow to your personal set up and it looks really good from here...Nice job on thread and pictures are worth a thousand words man, excellent job...
                                                                                                                                                    Don
                                                                                                                 
Genesis 27:3 Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison;

Offline PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,744
  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2019, 07:11:52 am »
This answers your questions that popped up a few weeks back. Its a good feeling have a super tuned bow. Id be willing to bet your accuracy improves instantly.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline TSA

  • Member
  • Posts: 271
    • www.trueshaftarchery.com
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2019, 04:09:01 pm »
very well done
i must say i like the idea of the bales.
i have always used a more homogeneous foam material, to ensure that the medium was consistent, and that hard lumps didnt deflect the shaft and produce a false reading.
however with the softer bale medium, there is a greatly reduced chance of breaking, and as Don said, multiple shootings of the same shaft will create a good mental picture of what the shaft is doing..

good job!! :OK :OK

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2019, 04:34:41 pm »
Thanks, TSA and Pearly.  I use bales because I live on a hay pasture, so hay bales are pretty easy to come by.  Despite the fairly soft target, I have broken several shafts throughout this process, but they were shafts that weren't going to work for my bow anyway.  Firewood is firewood, right?
~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.

Offline bradsmith2010

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,649
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 03:13:11 pm »
ok so what was the final result,, 35# spine worked the best from your 60# bow,,
you said the handle was a bit wide,, maybe think about adjusting the bow a bit,, as well
maybe the string is lined up better on the the other side,,
also put a piece of tape on the arrow and see if you are pulling to 60#,, I am thinking you should not have to go that low in spine to get good arrow flight,,
if its working for you thats all that matters,, but I am thinking it is indicating a bit of bow tuning is needed as well,,  :)

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 362
  • Future Expert
Re: Bare Shaft Tuning: The Saga Continues
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2019, 04:13:53 pm »
ok so what was the final result,, 35# spine worked the best from your 60# bow,,
you said the handle was a bit wide,, maybe think about adjusting the bow a bit,, as well
maybe the string is lined up better on the the other side,,
also put a piece of tape on the arrow and see if you are pulling to 60#,, I am thinking you should not have to go that low in spine to get good arrow flight,,
if its working for you thats all that matters,, but I am thinking it is indicating a bit of bow tuning is needed as well,,  :)

Well, I'm waiting for some new sitka spruce shafts so I can build actual arrows, but the 35# POC shaft flies well with no fletching, even out to 20 yards, so that's what I'm going with.  It seems low to me, too, but that's what worked best.  Everything I've read says that shooting off the hand demands a lighter arrow, but that seems a little crazy.  My bowyer (Curt Brisky) said that, in his experience, 60# shafts should fly well out of a 60# bow, but I haven't really found that to be the case.  Maybe it's something about the way I shoot.

What kind of tuning do you have in mind, Brad?  I shoot off the hand, so there's really no shelf to adjust, and I'm not at all up to learning to shoot right handed, so tuning opportunities would seem to be limited.  I really should figure a way to measure my actual draw weight; I suspect it has settled into something less than 60#, but I don't have a way to measure how much.  Let me know what you're thinking I might need to change.

Interestingly, I did find that I was nocking way too high on the string.  I had to move way down before my shafts started hitting level.  This process has given me a whole new appreciation for what good fletching does:  I've been shooting quite well, out to 30 yards, with arrows that don't fly worth poo as bare shafts.  Feathers cover a multitude of sins!

Thomas
~Thomas
Wind River Country, Wyoming
Fall down six times.  Stand up seven.