Author Topic: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!  (Read 11782 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Handforged

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
  • Limestone Canyon Forge, Monarch MT.
Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« on: April 03, 2020, 01:34:14 pm »
In the other thread I was discussing build along items and this one struck my fancy as I have not made one in a while. The mocataugen or crooked knife is one of the most useful tools in your tool box. It was an essential part of native life and useful in making dozens of items where a straight blade just couldn't cut it.  There are varying degrees of these knives and all were made with a specific purpose in mind. Some were general purpose, essentially used as a traditional straight bladed knife with a slight curvature. Others were bent to varying degrees for hollowing wood. Making bowls, Kuksa (noggin) cups and spoons requires some sort of curved blade. They are also used in hollowing dugout canoes, carving facial features on totem poles and at least 100 other jobs that I don't know about.

I have made a few of these over the years and what I plan to do here is sort of a two pronged attack on the idea. I will make one Mocataugen as simply as I can. Using not much more than things any guy would have around the house. A piece of white tail antler, a used up file, a couple nails and some hemp twine. This one will be as basic and primative as I can make while still keeping the spirit of the originals.

The second I will go off the rails a little. Forging this one down from 52100 round bar. I'll forge in a hidden tang with this one and do a burn in style handle from some aged osage scrap. This one will be slightly more elegant. Carving and shaping the osage to a more traditional handle. All while hopefully keeping the design of the Mocataugen intact. 

Here is a pic of where we begin. Smaller diameter deer antler, osage block, 52100 round bar and a small bastard file that I had laying around.
At the forge- 406-781-9098

Offline Handforged

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
  • Limestone Canyon Forge, Monarch MT.
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2020, 01:38:49 pm »
I don't think there is a need to show all the stages of forging out the round bar (I mean I will if you guys want me too) . I'll jump across that to the stage that the file is essentially in already. Trying to keep both projects on the same time line and picture continuity.
At the forge- 406-781-9098

Offline Handforged

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
  • Limestone Canyon Forge, Monarch MT.
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2020, 04:14:49 pm »
the larger crooked knife I intend to be a general purpose. As such it will be a larger version capable of heavier general carving work.  I started by forging down the 52100 round bar into a general drop point shape. Forged in the tapered hidden tang the proceeded to burn in the osage block as I was still working the bevels in the blade with the flatter getting all the edges nice and flat. One thing to remember about crooked knives in particular. You don't want the tang to be straight or inline with the blade. It needs to be swept back slightly, away from the cutting edge.

Burning in a handle: This is done by drilling a starter hole to the depth of the tang. I usually do this to give burned materials a place to go and get the direction started. Once the tang is a yellowish color, all you need to do is push the heated tang into the wood block. It will burn the wood and clearance as it goes. This will take several heats to get it seated fully. If you want a perfect hidden tang fit, this is the easiest way to achieve it. I could have drilled, marked and measured the handle to scratch it out with a handle broach but honestly the burn in method is so much easier and achieves a tighter fit. Once it's done there is no movement in the tang/handle fit.
At the forge- 406-781-9098

Offline Handforged

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
  • Limestone Canyon Forge, Monarch MT.
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2020, 04:22:13 pm »
Next we go back to the blades. The file blade was worked down to a chisel edge. Being a smaller, thinner blade the chisel edge will be easier to sharpen. For the larger Mocataugen I used a standard knife edge, essentially a flat grind is what it will end up being.  After the bevels are worked down to almost sharp I go ahead and put in the curve. Most of these I see are either very shallow, almost a 90 degree bend. I have a hardened steel pen in my hardy on the anvil just for this work. I start shaping at the tip and put in a graceful arch. I think these are a lot more elegant looking than the sharper angles. I do this because I can, it isn't necessary, it just appeals to my eye.
At the forge- 406-781-9098

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,396
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2020, 05:32:00 pm »
Can you put a piece of paper or something under them when you take pictures? They kind of disappear into the anvil :D

Offline Handforged

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
  • Limestone Canyon Forge, Monarch MT.
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2020, 05:43:36 pm »
Can you put a piece of paper or something under them when you take pictures? They kind of disappear into the anvil :D
HA!, I can try that.
At the forge- 406-781-9098

Offline Handforged

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
  • Limestone Canyon Forge, Monarch MT.
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2020, 05:50:26 pm »
Large Mocataugen is being fitted for it's osage handle. With the tang burned into to shape, shaping the handle is so much easier.  Traditionally crooked knives are meant to be used like a draw knife. With the blade pulled towards your body. Having a reverse grip, most of the traditional styles have a backwards swell in the handle as well as a recessed body and a thumb rest for leverage. I did all of this rough shaping on the belt grinder. I'll then take it down with sandpaper and while the blade is annealed drill the holed for the pins. There is no rhyme or reason to the shape of these. It's more like a feel good comfortable shape. Sand until you get there, then finish sand and oil.
At the forge- 406-781-9098

Offline Hawkdancer

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,027
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2020, 12:40:32 am »
Nice work!
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,884
  • Eddie Parker
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2020, 08:06:24 am »
I'm watching but working on other projects right now. Plan on cutting some tines off of a large, very old pitchfork today.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline dylanholderman

  • Member
  • Posts: 787
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2020, 01:58:54 pm »
i'll play along.
here's a couple rusty files i pulled out, cant get out of the house to do any forge work so i'm just normalizing them so that i can do stock removal.



Offline Bryce

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,125
  • Pacific Ghost Longbows
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2020, 02:08:45 pm »
i use a crooked knife every day:) my favorite tool. nice work amigo
Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline GlisGlis

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,487
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2020, 05:33:35 am »
thankyou for the buildalong

If the curved part is closer to the handle wouldn't it be easier to apply pressure and carve?

Offline Handforged

  • Member
  • Posts: 243
  • Limestone Canyon Forge, Monarch MT.
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2020, 11:12:41 am »
thankyou for the buildalong

If the curved part is closer to the handle wouldn't it be easier to apply pressure and carve?

That is where the intended purpose comes into play. Having a good portion of straight blade makes it useful for other tasks. That is how they were originally intended. Now shortening the blade and curving it sooner would be very useful for bowl and spoon carving but not very useful for other chores. In the end the tool is made for the purpose it is intended to be used.  I try to walk a line of general purpose instead of single purpose.
At the forge- 406-781-9098

Offline BrianS

  • Member
  • Posts: 974
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2020, 11:28:45 am »
Nice

Offline GlisGlis

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,487
Re: Mocataugen (crooked knife) build along starts NOW!
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2020, 12:07:44 pm »
Quote
That is where the intended purpose comes into play. Having a good portion of straight blade makes it useful for other tasks. That is how they were originally intended. Now shortening the blade and curving it sooner would be very useful for bowl and spoon carving but not very useful for other chores. In the end the tool is made for the purpose it is intended to be used.  I try to walk a line of general purpose instead of single purpose

very good  :OK
they have elegant lines too