Author Topic: My new Hornbow  (Read 1643 times)

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Offline bownarra

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2020, 12:10:36 am »
Interesting about the vinegar. I'll look into it and do some testing.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 01:50:36 am by bownarra »

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2020, 07:52:12 am »
I've heard of vinegar being added to hide glue but it wasn't for the purpose of making it more flexible or stronger, in fact I heard it weakened the glue a bit.  What I read was that it was added to reduce it's gel point
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

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Offline bownarra

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2020, 12:28:30 am »
Well the vinegar reduced the strength of my test glue-ups enough that I won't use it on a bow.
I find that simply doing the different processes when the weather suits is the best way. Even in cold spring England there are ways around the glues gelling.

Offline Corvus

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2020, 01:06:58 am »
Vinegar seems like a bad idea especially when using already lower grade glues like rabbit(low collagen) and liquid pre-mix
Don't worry, we got yew!
-PNW

Offline simk

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2020, 04:00:39 am »
Hey, it's not my invention. It's just from scientific studys of the Munich techincal University about various ancient glueing recipies. It's tested on all types of many hornbows. If this one will fail its only due to my incapability  ;D
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 03:19:41 pm by simk »

Offline Corvus

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2020, 10:10:39 am »
Have you used this in practical application before? 2 pretty well experienced people posted before me. Vinegar dissolves hide glue, I don't see anyway how it would not weaken it. It might give you a slower gel time, but does not seem like a good thing to do imo. If it has worked for you then have at it, but I personally would not risk a weaker glue line for all the work that goes into horn composite builds. Then again I would not use the types of glue you are using to begin with myself, nothing but top quality materials. Don't want to spend all that time to just end up with delamination or breakage. Just my 2 cents
Don't worry, we got yew!
-PNW

Offline simk

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2020, 02:00:34 pm »
Corvus, yes my last one had this features too  (-S especially the sinew layer worked very well I think. I'm deeply impressed by Marcs bow's and bownarras too and they have my greatest respect. But if I was looking for advice I had asked here before doing so and posting. It's just for entertainement. Very interested and open minded I'm taking the different opinions to come. Luckyly I'm gifted with a counsel I 1000% trust and with some things it's usually better to listen to only one expert 8)   
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 02:07:44 pm by simk »

Offline Corvus

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2020, 04:39:21 pm »
Why I said if it works for you then have at it. Was not aimed at giving advice, was just joining in on the conversation about the vinegar there. Maybe the extra additives to the liquid glue help keep the glue from being broken down. I would not try it with just regular hide glue myself. If it works for you then it is a neat trick and good luck with the build
Don't worry, we got yew!
-PNW

Offline bownarra

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2020, 11:19:40 pm »
Nothing wrong with learning by making your own mistakes ;)
Not listening to others is also your choice :)
I am in the same camp as Corvus - only the finest materials and techniques are used when it comes to a horn bow. A wooden bow that only takes a few hours to make is different. A good hornbow will have many hours in it and I don't like wasting my time haha.
You may have one person whom you 1000% trust but I preferred to get my knowledge through the consensus of the majority. I would suggest that all these 'tricks' have been tried before and disguarded for whatever reason - there is nothing new under the sun :) When a bow type (composite) has been made and worked on for easily a 1000+ years I am humble enough to realize that the consensus is probably right :)
If you aren't bothered with tradition I would use EA40. Mixed 2:1 and cured at 40 - 50 degs.

Offline simk

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2020, 12:30:07 am »
bownarra, you are very eloquent  ;D
what do you mean by consensus of the majority? following blindly the book of A.K.? I'm glad some people have gone beyond that and did their on research. I don't like monocultures, I like diversity. There's not only one path leading to Rome and not only one church to attend.
By the way: Using 2k on the horns felt like cheating to me ;D
Let's all do some nice bows  (-S

Thank you Corvus - sure need the luck - 6 million ways to fail.....choose one  8)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:40:57 am by simk »

Offline stuckinthemud

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2020, 04:38:55 am »
Having just made a batch of size, more than I can possibly use on my current job, I suspect that the vinegar would be useful as a fungicide - maybe help to stop un-used glue from going 'off'' ?

Offline simk

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2020, 07:03:25 am »
that is correct  ;D

Offline simk

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2020, 08:46:00 am »
i usually put the glue in the refrigerator to store it

Offline bownarra

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2020, 01:12:44 am »
Melt it again and then pour out on baking trays. Thin enough and it will just dry without going off or as simk says in the fridge or freezer.

Offline BowEd

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Re: My new Hornbow
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2020, 09:05:29 am »
Ditto.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed