Author Topic: A couple of shot placement questions  (Read 5565 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,574
  • Future Expert
A couple of shot placement questions
« on: September 19, 2020, 08:48:52 pm »
Evening, boys.  Here's something I've been wondering for a long time.  I keep reading that the double lung hit is a quicker kill than the heart shot, and I believe it, but it goes against intuition.  Can anybody explain why this is so?

Second question is more just for fun, not something I would try or encourage anyone else to try.  I was out tonight perforating a few 3d targets, and decided to try a head shot at a doe.  Put the arrow about an inch under her eye, which would probably be a very ugly kill in real life.  But...if you are one of those people who can consistently bulls-eye a tennis ball, and you had a good, heavy, bone-crunching arrow on the string, would there ever be a circumstance where you'd take the head shot?
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline JW_Halverson

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,823
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2020, 08:53:34 pm »
Not a chance in he...heck.

I've seen several deer living (if you can call it that) with arrows through part of their heads and I am sickened by even the memory.
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,461
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2020, 09:01:28 pm »
I agree with John. Lot better chance of a clean kill going for the boiler room and it's a bigger target.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline mmattockx

  • Member
  • Posts: 919
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2020, 09:30:07 pm »
I'll add my voice to no head shots. I once unintentionally head shot a buck with a rifle when he dipped his head right as I pulled the trigger on a head on shot. With a bow there is simply far too many things that can go wrong and it takes almost no movement for a miss or very ugly wounding shot. I will take the far safer, more certain heart/lung shot every time, even with a rifle.


Mark
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 01:41:48 pm by mmattockx »

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,574
  • Future Expert
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2020, 09:58:27 pm »
Yep, I agree completely on the head shot.  I never would take it on a real animal (except small game); just wanted to see if that was the consensus.  I know some rifle hunters will take head shots, but we have a much smaller margin of error.  On 3d targets it's a fun challenge, though.   ;D

So what's the deal with the double lung hit?  From what I know about how the cardiovascular system works, I just can't see how deflating the lungs should kill faster than shutting down the heart, but it sure seems to work that way.  Anybody know why?
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline HH~

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,742
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2020, 06:17:15 am »
No head or neck shots period!!!

I was with my father hunting  first couple years I started bow hunting. He was hunting under some Chestnut Oaks and had a nice buck come right to him. He had drawn on him when his head was down and he was walking in. Well, deer come to about 10-12yds and my father was shooting for his chest but the buck saw him release and saw the arrow and ducked his head right into arrow. My father saw what happened and said the buck had the arrow sticking out of his right eye socket and was bleeding bad.

I came to where he was hunting at last light from my location. We followed that buck for about mile and a half in dark before we found him. Was not a photogenic moment. It did do the job. The broadhead was on backside of his skull.

Neck! Anyone who has boned out a neck knows why you dont shoot for a neck on any big game critter with a bow.

Shawn~
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 02:01:38 pm by HedgeHunter »
MAFA: Makin America Free Again

Long is the road, Hard is the way.

Mother Gue never raised such a foolish child. . . .

Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight onto the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor. RLTW

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,461
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2020, 01:13:52 pm »
WB, a shot through or into the lungs will not only bleed very well but will collapse (pneumothorax) inside the chest. Try holding your breath and see how far you can run.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Deerhunter21

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,253
  • What do you despise? By this are you truly known.
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2020, 09:07:29 pm »
Second question is more just for fun, not something I would try or encourage anyone else to try.  I was out tonight perforating a few 3d targets, and decided to try a head shot at a doe.  Put the arrow about an inch under her eye, which would probably be a very ugly kill in real life.  But...if you are one of those people who can consistently bulls-eye a tennis ball, and you had a good, heavy, bone-crunching arrow on the string, would there ever be a circumstance where you'd take the head shot?

No way. no no no no... ugh... i hate to think about this but I've learned how good the brain is at adapting and surviving. we can live with half our brain gone, a pencil clean through the center of it, a chunk of it carved out, a bullet or arrow straight through it if not hitting a vital part of the brain.... the only way the brain will die is lack of oxygen (from blood not getting there or oxygen not getting in the blood) it seems or horrible, horrible trauma, shock, pressure.... even then its iffy.... thats why deer can survive CWD, and why we can survive many injuries, diseases, and other horrible stuff to the brain.

the only area in the head that i personally would even consider a certain kill shot would be the brain stem 4-5cm from the base of the skull... thats what will stop the heart, lungs, nerves, everything below the neck. I would not consider this ethical still as a deers brain is about 1/6 the size of ours meaning their brain stem is probably smaller than 1 inch.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.

Offline bradsmith2010

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,187
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2020, 09:54:55 am »
wouldnt try head shot,, not sure bout the heart lung,, both are good shots,,

Offline jimmi the sammi

  • Member
  • Posts: 92
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2020, 05:19:37 pm »
A good friend of mine is a pharmacist and a trad hunting archer.  His explanation is that humans experience much pain with heart surgeries and very little pain with lung surgeries.  He thinks it equates the same with animals.  In my experience, heart shot critters go farther than lung shot and from his explanation I believe the pain factor is the reason.  Just my opinion.

Offline Woody roberts

  • Member
  • Posts: 179
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2020, 05:36:50 pm »
Ive yet to shoot my first deer with a bow but Ive shot a good many with rifle and pistol. While in my younger days I have shot several in the head. Thank goodness I never had a malfunction. Ive heard horror stories about deer with their lower jaw shot off.
Any more I steer away from head/ neck shots.

I hunt a lot with a 45 colt and I liken it to bow kills without the good blood trail. A deer shot through the lungs may not go down for a few minutes but may not cover 30 yds during that time. They seem bewildered but not in any pain.
If a bullet hits the heart they will run like a streak until they crash. Heart shots may or may not kill faster than double lung shots but the distance covered may be considerably more.

However I often have to take the shot they give me or hold my piece.

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,574
  • Future Expert
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2020, 07:19:15 pm »
Interesting.  I never even thought about the pain factor.  I took last year's deer through the heart, and he only ran 30 yards or so before a fence stopped him, but he stood hunched up, definitely not feeling good.
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour

Offline bradsmith2010

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,187
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2020, 12:01:35 pm »
as you shoot more deer you will realize, even the best aimed arrow is not totally in your controll,, the deer will probably move and it can change the results dramtically, you have to take your best shot and hope for the best,, deer can sometimes go further than expected with either shot,, or any shot,, I think low in the vitals has worked best for me, and seems better for a blood trail than a high shot,,
that being said, even a gut shot is deadly,, etc etc, My friend Jerry Simmons who invented the Simmons head, shot a heavier bow and took whatever shot the deer presented,, with hundreds of deer kills,,he was deadly, and told me I should never miss a deer,, it was so much bigger than a rabbit,,:)

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,461
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2020, 12:46:12 pm »
Shooting low is your best bet not only for the reasons Brad gave when you take the shot the deer will drop down as it prepares to flee. This is one reason folks shoot over the deer. If you took a slo mo of the deer and arrow in flight you will see the arrow going straight for the kill zone but it goes over the deer's back as it drops. A deer's reaction is very fast compared to ours.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline WhistlingBadger

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,574
  • Future Expert
Re: A couple of shot placement questions
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2020, 01:14:59 pm »
A deer's reaction is very fast compared to ours.

Well, that's not saying much in my case.  I have the reflexes of a dead cat.   ;D
Thomas
Lander, Wyoming
"The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail.
Travel too fast, and you miss all you are traveling for."
~Louis L'Amour