Sinew Backed, Double Curve Bow

[JackCrafty]

Using a ruler to measure the arrows on my computer screen (and using ratios to convert to actual size), I get the following measurements:

Shaft = 61cm (24")
Fletching = 15.5cm (6-1/4")
Length of Arrowhead (without tang) = 6.6cm (2-5/8")
Width of Arrowhead = 1.9cm (3/4")
Wrapping below arrowheads and in front of feathers = 3.9cm (1-1/2")

[Papa Matt]

Pat when you get this all done, I'd be real interested in seing how the bow performs, because I've always wondered about longer distance shots with plains double-curve bows. I know they were used mostly on horseback, and in the close-range buffalo hunt. But I'm curious to see how they might perform out to say 25 yards with that real long fletching. Even more so due to the fact that your actual brace height is short due to the reflex in the handle. I always hate it when I drag fletching backwards over my hand or an arrow rest during draw, but unless a person engineers the draw to where the feathers don't touch during draw, that's what will happen with long fletch and a short BH.

Do you have an opinon, or knowledge on this Pat?

~~PM

[JackCrafty]

Matt,

I know what you mean....the feathers will drag across the bow (and my hand) when I draw the bow.  But it doesn't bother me.

There's a couple things I do to reduce the effect of the feather drag:
Fletch the arrow with soft feathers and/or rub my finger back and forth across the offending feather to "soften" it up.

As far as long distance flight, it's a matter of simple physics (is there such a thing?)  Basically, the faster the arrow leaves the bow the further it will go.  The drag caused by the long fletchings also affects flight, but the same arrow fired from a fast bow will still fly further than if fired from a slow bow.  Also, shorter bows tend to be slower than longer bows of the same draw weight and draw length.  So....it's pretty obvious that short bows are not designed for long distance flight.

That said, there's no reason why a short bow can't be made stronger so that it can launch an arrow faster and, therefore, further.  There are some Plains Indian bows that are quite powerful...I've heard upwards of 80lbs in some accounts.  Whether these were designed to be more effective at killing buffalo or killing an enemy at a distance is anybody's guess.

One thing stands out, though: on all plains arrows, the fletchings are cut short.  I've seen some as short as 3/16".  This reduces drag quite a bit.

I don't have the space to test the arrows in long flight, but I can tell you from experience that long-flecthed arrows fly very well at shorter distances.  And I prefer long, short-trimmed fletchings over shorter, tall-trimmed fletchings any day.

And I will definitely test the performance of this bow.  I think I like testing my bows more that I like making them.....maybe.

[tsa yo ga]

Jackcrafty,
I would like to say your work is very impressive.  I aspire to such work.  i have a question, can a 44" hickory double curve be a self bow or at that length is sinew essential?  Thanks
'

[JackCrafty]

Tsa yo ga, thanks

Hickory works very well for self bows.  Sinew is not needed on a 44" hickory bow unless you have cut through the grain on the back of the bow.  If you peel off the bark without damaging the wood underneath, the exposed wood is the back of the bow.

If you make the bow wide and flat, and with a bendy handle, a 44" hickory self bow can be safely drawn to 22".  You may need to slightly recurve the tips to prevent the string from sliding off the tips.

The yellow bow in the picture below (on the tillering stick) is a hickory self bow that I made (no sinew backing).

I don't have the exact dimensions with me right now but here they are as I remember:
Length = 46"
Nock to Nock = 45"
Handle Width = 1"
Max Handle Thickness = 7/8"
Max Width of Limbs = 1-1/2"
Tip Width = 1/2"
Tip Thickness = 1/4"
Draw Weight = 45lb @ 22"

The handle is offset and the arrow pass is at the center of the bow.  Hope this helps.

[tsa yo ga]

Wow, thanks for the input.  I may have knicked the grain, I don't yet know hickory well enough to know if it is enough to have damaged it. The piece in question is naturally bent in a shallow c, I was thinking i could just rough it out and steam the handle put a slight set back into it.  I have yet to accomplish a finished bow with a proper tiller.  I have read that all plains bows were not perfectly.  I'm not trying to find a cop out, but can I get away with it too?

[JackCrafty]

Hickory is very forgiving of small flaws.  I think you'll be fine.

[Papa Matt]

Yeah, if it's a small knick, you should be alright.

[tsa yo ga]

Cool, that's what I was hoping to hear.  Now I will rough it out, and then put in the set back handle section with steam.  I am still not clear about how to post pics as computers are not my forte.  If I can get this to work out I will be very happy. Ya'll are good mentors, I'm hoping it will rub off just a little.

[tsa yo ga]

I think I have noticed that your bows are rectangular in crosssection.  with my hickory stave, I would leave the back as is, rounded.  Is this correct?

[JackCrafty]

Yes, I prefer a rectangular cross section.  However, I don't remove the crown from the back of the bow.  If I start with a small diameter sapling, the cross section will semi-circular.  If I start with a large diameter log, and split out a stave, the cross section will be rectangular.

Hickory does well with either cross section (yes, leave the back rounded. )

[tsa yo ga]

Thanks for the quick reply!  When bending the handle, what method do you use.  I have yet to make forms and have limited clamps.  I was thinking of doing the old timey way, maybe stand on it or strap it down in the middle somehow?  thanks again for everyones patience with a greenhorn.

[JackCrafty]

After steaming, I bend the bow with my knee and pull back on the limbs.  I hold the bow in position until it cools (about a minute or so).  Then I tie a cord to both tips so that the bow looks braced...except in reverse.  I leave it this way for several days...or until the hickory is dry.  Then I steam and shape the limbs....again using my knee.  I also use a "bow wrench" that is similar to an arrow straightening tool but much bigger (It's just a section of a 5" diameter log with a notch cut in the side).

I have to admit, though, the hickory I've used has not held reflex very well....especially in the handle.

[tsa yo ga]

When you get to this step, is the bow basicly roughed out?  I think I read that you do not get the tiller completely finished before bending, or do you do that after its bent.  If it holds some bend i'll be happy, even if it shoots i'll still be happy.

[JackCrafty]

Yes, the bow is roughed out before bending.  I personally like to get it roughed out as close as possible to the final dimensions.

I rough out the bow, then I floor tiller it (to get it bending enough to be braced without difficulty), then I shape (bend) the bow, then let it dry out (several days, weeks, or months), then finish tillering.