Main Discussion Area > English Warbow
Meaning of 'Piked'
bow-toxo:
--- Quote from: ratty on August 04, 2008, 02:32:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: bow-toxo on August 03, 2008, 09:21:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: ratty on August 03, 2008, 04:58:19 pm ---i read and understood the word whipping as gentle recurving the tips.
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You did right. Looking up a word in the dictionary is really the best way to find out what it means. My favourite, especially for words in previous centuries, is the ‘Oxford English Dictionary’ which has several pager of examples for many words. I get two relevant meanings for whip. One is “to bind round or ‘serve’ with cord etc.’ as in the whipping on a bow string. The other is ”a flexible switch with or without a lash.” Or “a slender flexible branch of a plant”. Also ‘whippy’ meaning “flexible, springy”. So you can see the connection to a whiplash injury.
I found no reference to any bent shape in four pages of definitions,or in yours either.
I really have to disagree with your idea, "that tox is referring to recreational bows, not military.” If you are not aware that English archery at this time was regulated to produce military archers, and that the only recreational bows were thpse used by such women or clergy exempt from compulsory practice, I suggest that you ac6tually read Toxophilus which comments on military barbed arrowheads and arrow shaft materials for war arrows, and check the statutes of Henry VIII concerning archery that mandated practice, leaving no time for “recreational” archery or bows for "recreational bows" for men.
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ratty:
hello bow-toxo
you wrote
--- Quote --- I found no reference to any bent shape in four pages of definitions,or in yours either.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Main Entry: 1whip
Pronunciation: \ˈhwip, ˈwip\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): whipped; whip·ping
Etymology: Middle English wippen, whippen; akin to Middle Dutch wippen (to move up and down, sway,) Old English wīpian to wipe
Date: 14th century
--- End quote ---
the word sway ? = To cause to incline or bend to one side. or To divert; deflect
source http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sway
you wrote
--- Quote ---I really have to disagree with your idea, "that tox is referring to recreational bows, not military.” If you are not aware that English archery at this time was regulated to produce military archers, and that the only recreational bows were thpse used by such women or clergy exempt from compulsory practice, I suggest that you ac6tually read Toxophilus which comments on military barbed arrowheads and arrow shaft materials for war arrows, and check the statutes of Henry VIII concerning archery that mandated practice, leaving no time for “recreational” archery or bows for "recreational bows" for men.
--- End quote ---
this quote should explain my reasoning
--- Quote ---Phi. I grant, Toxophile, that use of shooting maketh a man draw strong, to shoot at most advantage, to keep his gear, which is no small thing in war; but yet methink that the customable shooting at home, specially at butts and pricks, make nothing at all for strong shooting, which doth most good in war. Therefore, I suppose, if men should use to go into the fields, and learn to shoot mighty strong shots, and never care for any mark at all, they should do much better.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Tox. The truth is, that fashion much used would do much good, but this is to be feared, lest that way could not provoke men to use much shooting, because there should be little pleasure in it. And that in shooting is best, that provoketh a man to use shooting most; for much use maketh men shoot both strong and well, which two-things in shooting every man doth desire. And the chief maintainer of use in any thing is comparison and honest contention. For when a man striveth to be better than another, he will gladly use that thing, though it be never so painful, wherein he would excel; which thing Aristotle very prettily doth note, saying, " Where is comparison, there is victory; where is victory, there is pleasure; and where is pleasure, no man careth what labour or pain he taketh, because of the praise and pleasure that he shall have in doing better than other men."
--- End quote ---
quote from the first book of shooting
--- Quote ---Phi. The excellent commodities of shooting in peace time, Toxophile, you have very well and sufficiently declared. Whereby you have so persuaded me, that, God willing, hereafter I will both love it the better, and also use it the ofter. For as much as I can gather of all this communication of ours, the tongue, the nose, the hands, and the feet, be no fitter members or instruments for the body of a man, than is shooting for the whole body of the realm. God hath made the parts of men which be best and most necessary, to serve, not for one purpose only, but for many; as the tongue for speaking and tasting; the nose for smelling, and also for avoiding all excrements which fall out of the head; the hands for receiving of good things, and for putting of [off] all harmful things from the body. So shooting is an exercise of health, a pastime of honest pleasure, and such one also that stoppeth or avoideth all noisome games, gathered and increased by ill rule, as naughty humours be, which hurt and corrupt sore that part of the realm wherein they do remain.
But now if you can show but half so much profit in war of shooting, as you have proved pleasure in peace, then will I surely judge that there be few things that have so manifold commodities and uses joined unto them as it bath.
--- End quote ---
i believe a person would not buy and have a cunning bowyer dress pike ect there bow if it was not for recreational use.
all bows would have been supplied for warfare ,i believe you would not be expected to bring your own bow to battle. for eg on the maryrose nearly all the bows were kept in boxes most probably more bows than archers,and would be standardised.
ratty:
i think piked means to bring the bow ends to a point.
SimonUK:
--- Quote ---Quote
make him come round compass everywhere, and whipping at the ends, but with discretion, lest he whip in sunder, or else fret, sooner than he is ware of
i read this with the impression he was talking about recurving the tips (but with discretion)
and if they bent them too much while putting in a slight recrve, they would sunder, split/break/.
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Or it could mean that recurving the tips puts more stress on the rest of the bow, increasing the chance of frets there.
--- Quote ---i think piked means to bring the bow ends to a point.
--- End quote ---
But if you read the quote in the first post of this thread, piking is done either side of a fret to stop it getting worse.
bow-toxo:
--- Quote from: ratty on August 07, 2008, 09:04:02 am ---hello bow-toxo
you wrote
--- Quote --- I found no reference to any bent shape in four pages of definitions,or in yours either.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Main Entry: 1whip
Pronunciation: \ˈhwip, ˈwip\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): whipped; whip·ping
Etymology: Middle English wippen, whippen; akin to Middle Dutch wippen (to move up and down, sway,) Old English wīpian to wipe
Date: 14th century
--- End quote ---
the word sway ? = To cause to incline or bend to one side. or To divert; deflect
source http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sway
you wrote
--- Quote ---I really have to disagree with your idea, "that tox is referring to recreational bows, not military.” If you are not aware that English archery at this time was regulated to produce military archers, and that the only recreational bows were thpse used by such women or clergy exempt from compulsory practice, I suggest that you ac6tually read Toxophilus which comments on military barbed arrowheads and arrow shaft materials for war arrows, and check the statutes of Henry VIII concerning archery that mandated practice, leaving no time for “recreational” archery or bows for "recreational bows" for men.
--- End quote ---
this quote should explain my reasoning
--- Quote ---Phi. I grant, Toxophile, that use of shooting maketh a man draw strong, to shoot at most advantage, to keep his gear, which is no small thing in war; but yet methink that the customable shooting at home, specially at butts and pricks, make nothing at all for strong shooting, which doth most good in war. Therefore, I suppose, if men should use to go into the fields, and learn to shoot mighty strong shots, and never care for any mark at all, they should do much better.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Tox. The truth is, that fashion much used would do much good, but this is to be feared, lest that way could not provoke men to use much shooting, because there should be little pleasure in it. And that in shooting is best, that provoketh a man to use shooting most; for much use maketh men shoot both strong and well, which two-things in shooting every man doth desire. And the chief maintainer of use in any thing is comparison and honest contention. For when a man striveth to be better than another, he will gladly use that thing, though it be never so painful, wherein he would excel; which thing Aristotle very prettily doth note, saying, " Where is comparison, there is victory; where is victory, there is pleasure; and where is pleasure, no man careth what labour or pain he taketh, because of the praise and pleasure that he shall have in doing better than other men."
--- End quote ---
quote from the first book of shooting
--- Quote ---Phi. The excellent commodities of shooting in peace time, Toxophile, you have very well and sufficiently declared. Whereby you have so persuaded me, that, God willing, hereafter I will both love it the better, and also use it the ofter. For as much as I can gather of all this communication of ours, the tongue, the nose, the hands, and the feet, be no fitter members or instruments for the body of a man, than is shooting for the whole body of the realm. God hath made the parts of men which be best and most necessary, to serve, not for one purpose only, but for many; as the tongue for speaking and tasting; the nose for smelling, and also for avoiding all excrements which fall out of the head; the hands for receiving of good things, and for putting of [off] all harmful things from the body. So shooting is an exercise of health, a pastime of honest pleasure, and such one also that stoppeth or avoideth all noisome games, gathered and increased by ill rule, as naughty humours be, which hurt and corrupt sore that part of the realm wherein they do remain.
But now if you can show but half so much profit in war of shooting, as you have proved pleasure in peace, then will I surely judge that there be few things that have so manifold commodities and uses joined unto them as it bath.
--- End quote ---
i believe a person would not buy and have a cunning bowyer dress pike ect there bow if it was not for recreational use.
all bows would have been supplied for warfare ,i believe you would not be expected to bring your own bow to battle. for eg on the maryrose nearly all the bows were kept in boxes most probably more bows than archers,and would be standardised.
--- End quote ---
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Bending to one side does not imply a permanent bend. Are you reoading my posts at all ? Your beliefs are not relevant to the facts. Englishmen [ and boys] were required to buy the bows and arrows to learn to shoot and for the cumpulsory practice required of able bodied Englishmen between the ages of 16 and 6o. These were not usually yew bows as yew was needed for the wars and ownership was restricted. Bowyers were required to make most bows of 'meane woods'. The crown issued yew warbows and arrows to those men recruited for combat operations. I mcommend you for reading Toxophilus. I suggest that you also refer to the many statutes of Henry VII concerning archery to get a more complete picture. Although many enjoyed the cumpulsory practice, recreational archery per se belongs to later periods. I hope you can get over your obsession with the idea of pampered dandies at the butts in Ascham's [and MR] time.
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