Author Topic: Anyone want a dogwood arrow build-along?  (Read 66512 times)

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Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2012, 07:15:20 pm »
Ajmag I will post a pic of the nock when I get home. As for the color I think I am building it up with the expectation that it will fade. It is the frist time for this brew so its new to me.
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Offline AJMag

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2012, 07:59:42 pm »
Gotchya. It was really throwing me through a loop there. Keep up the good work, I for one, am learning a lot.

Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2012, 11:17:14 pm »
Good news here the natural tung oil did not dissolve the stain. I am very happy about that.
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Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2012, 10:55:27 am »
I am always thinking about different way of doing things. I was looking through my rock for color and remembered a test I did two years ago on a stone that appeared to have iron in it. I believe that when heated it oxidized and I think this is red iron oxide. Anyway it works great. It is very powdery and easy to apply and draw with. I coated it with the tung oil and it made a nice stain.   very nice discovery and gives me orange as part of my palette.
There are two stones in this picture the one on the left was heated the other was not.
As far as the berry stain it is still drying and this put those three arrows on hold. So I am going to spine another one and do it in red iron with black and white cresting.
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Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2012, 10:58:45 am »
I think orange turkey tail feather would look real cool on that type of shaft.
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Offline Whitebeam

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2012, 11:05:53 am »
I want to see how you intend to meso/neo (not paleo - wrong period!) waterproof that stain. I have a friend who tried some wonderful pigment and egg painting on a set of arrows - they looked wonderful, as his work always does. Then it rained :-(

Peter

Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2012, 11:14:33 am »
I want to see how you intend to meso/neo (not paleo - wrong period!) waterproof that stain. I have a friend who tried some wonderful pigment and egg painting on a set of arrows - they looked wonderful, as his work always does. Then it rained :-(

Peter
My plan was to use the tung or linseed as they are natural. If i had time I was going to use the sap from a sumac as I have read that it is an oil dryer. The question then would be which oil. I am open for suggeation however.
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Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2012, 11:31:17 am »
This was an arrow I made 2 years ago. The black stripes are made with egg tempra. Blood root was used for the orange. It's saw a lot of extreme hunting situation. No sealer was used.
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Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2012, 11:50:54 am »
It did fade and the black on the crest took a beating. I hope to seal the new arrows somehow. I wonder if smoke will water proof it in the same way that it does with leather.
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Offline tanner

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2012, 01:10:49 pm »
Whereabouts are you getting this dogwood in Iowa? I didn't see you mention. I was thinking I might have saw some of this the other day while checking my deer camera.

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2012, 01:44:57 pm »
Awesome job on this build-a-long!  I'm watching closely...   8)

A few of things, if I may:

Natural dyes from plants will always change color when exposed to UV rays.  Mineral pigments (like the iron oxide you are using) will not fade.

Smoking a hide will not waterproof it.  That is a common misconception.  Smoking a hide makes it smell good and helps it to stay a little more pliable after washing.  It will need to be re-smoked and re-stretched after each wash.

Smoking wood will not waterproof it either.  However, if you use smoke that comes from a fire that is burning a lot of fat or grease, a film of grease will deposit itself on the wood and offer a little protection.

Most historical arrows were painted with mineral pigment water colors and would need to be re-painted after getting wet.
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Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2012, 03:15:24 pm »
Whereabouts are you getting this dogwood in Iowa? I didn't see you mention. I was thinking I might have saw some of this the other day while checking my deer camera.
hi tanner I am in Burlington
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Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2012, 04:59:15 pm »
Awesome job on this build-a-long!  I'm watching closely...   8)

A few of things, if I may:

Natural dyes from plants will always change color when exposed to UV rays.  Mineral pigments (like the iron oxide you are using) will not fade.

Smoking a hide will not waterproof it.  That is a common misconception.  Smoking a hide makes it smell good and helps it to stay a little more pliable after washing.  It will need to be re-smoked and stretched after each wash.

Smoking wood will not waterproof it either.  However, if you use smoke that comes from a fire that is burning a lot of fat or grease, a film of grease will deposit itself on the wood and offer a little protection.

Most historical arrows were painted with mineral pigment water colors and would need to be re-painted after getting wet.
You most likely right on all accounts. On the leather that is smoked there is a deposit of creosote on the fiber that would resist water but certainly  would not make it water proof as I stated. The Hide that I had at the College presentation this spring got soaked by the rain.  I was sure it was ruined but I dried it out pulled a couple of times and it was good to go. I did not tan this hide but Beadman did. I guess I was think in terms of it not destroying the object. I was only wondering if there might be a similar benefit to this process. Maybe there was a process that happened naturally like a set of arrows hanging in a hut heated with wood that was often exposed to smoke. When I make charcoal there is a heavy residue that deposits on the side of the pipe that is impossible to clean easily. Anyway that was just me thinking out loud for other people to shoot down or add too. So thank you for the input and you are right it would not water proof it.

As for the dye fading do to UV that makes sense,  do we see a lot of brightly colored things sitting around that has not been broken down by UV light. I was hoping to find a mix that would not break down as fast. I was hoping that the effects that plant dyes have on cloth also be useful with the arrows. My thinking was that the Acid in the Sumac plant could bite the cells of the dogwood shoot and help deliver other dyes (black berry and chock berries) into those cells as well. I have twice tried the black berry and know that I get about three weeks of color from that plant. Six months to a year before doing another application would be great in my world.

The pigments added to the egg yoke seems to be water resistant and holds up fairly good but would need to be repainted after a year.

I often over think a project (that's the cool part of the hobby for me)
In an idea world these arrow should have take game before the years end and their longevity should not be over estimated by modern people (me).
However...Egg tempera take 6 months to a year to become waterproof. The yoke is made up of water and oil. At first the water leaves and feels dry but chemical drying of the water and the harden of the oil continues for months. This may be why whitebean's friend experienced a catastrophic end to his arrows when they became wet. This is a reminder that time makes big changes in the materials we use. Tung oil take months also to cure.

I wonder what my dye would do mixed with egg. Egg was also used to waterproof ink drawings early on.
Maybe I am making arrows for next year.
The dye could be coated with the egg yoke and left to dry for a year. Question will there be any color at that point.

I dont hunt in the rain anyway.
fun stuff to think about.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 06:35:57 pm by iowabow »
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Offline Whitebeam

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2012, 05:57:04 pm »
I was off then to Google "cartospoic", then I realised that your fingers have similar problems to mine sometimes! ;-)

I do keep meaning to come back to pine resin dissolved in turpentine as a form of varnish. I did try spruce resin dissolved in this way previously, but that stayed tacky for ever. I'm wondering if pine resin would dry faster?

Peter

Offline iowabow

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Re: Anyone want a dogwod arrow build-along?
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2012, 06:29:14 pm »
Whitebean let's try all of these ideas I have 5 arrows. I will hunt with them all season and see which ones hold up. We can number them so we don't lose track of which one is which
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