Author Topic: Laminated wood arrows  (Read 4379 times)

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Offline JNystrom

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Laminated wood arrows
« on: August 29, 2016, 03:20:45 pm »
I want to know everything about these laminated wood arrows. I've been searching information, but have only read couple of lines here and there. There are offcourse info about the bamboo laminated arrows, but not wood laminates from spruce/larch for example.
I suppose the basic idea is the same, laminate strips of some stiff wood to a hex shape? Or just laminated strips of wood on top of itself, without the 8 piece hex shape. What are the best combinations? Do you get any good arrow out of spruce by heat treated strips laminated just on top of each other without working it to an more complicated hex shape?
Well soon i'm going to try by myself, but before that i though i might just get some tips from here...

Offline Badger

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 07:52:09 pm »
  If you can find 100# western larch in 11/32 shafts I believe it will give you an optimum weight and diameter without laminating. Laminating to itself might even improve it.

mikekeswick

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 10:41:05 pm »
There is a build along on paleoplanet where Alan Case shows how to make the hex cane shafts. I've followed it and made a few dozen, it's not too hard and you'll work it out as you go.

Offline JNystrom

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2016, 05:04:51 am »
Thanks!

Indeed i need to find stiff material for testing. Here in finland i can find spruce and pine easily, and because of that maybe find some special pieces of extra stiff wood. Larch is a bit harder to find, well not that hard either, but some.

mikekeswick: Im looking for the wood only shafts, not cane of bamboo. But actually i found some tips about wooden laminated arrows under the topic of hex cane shafts.

I think the user redhawk55 here has done some experiments with wood laminated arrows.
What i understood, was that the shaft can be made by just laminating strips on top of each other and then later on worked to a shaft. So you dont need the hex shape for wood laminated arrows. Its good news, cause the making of these arrows plainly by laminating strips is a lot easier...

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2016, 07:16:15 am »
I have been playing with this lately. I have made some 2 ply birch, 3 ply cedar, 4 ply birch, and a 5 layer birch and cedar. As with any lamination, your glue line is of the utmost importance. The more glue lines, the larger margin for error. The 3 ply cedar at 3/8 spines out pretty heavy. The Birch a bit lower. The cedar spines out at almost the same as a solid hard maple shaft, but is much lighter.
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
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Offline Del the cat

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2016, 07:38:54 am »
I had some old pine skirting board that was V tight grain and made nice flight arrows. I made one up from two thin off cuts glued together with the grain running at angles.  ////\\\\, it seemed V good, stiff and straight.
Del
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2016, 07:41:44 am »
I have made them == and ll and lll and =l=  . Perhaps its time to try \\//. And maybe one day //oo\\
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
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Offline JNystrom

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2016, 09:17:50 am »
I suppose the glue line creates some added weight, so best suited wood would be light, and stiff of course. Something like pine/larch/spruce.
Playing with the grain angles is interesting. Is wood stiffer with specific grain angle?

One thing that was tested at paleoplanet was some inserts of stiffer wood at the middle of arrow shaft. By getting weight at the middle, the arrow would straighten much easier. Could you insert even some horn strips or such? That would be interesting, getting more the barreled effect without real dimensional barreling.

Offline willie

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2016, 10:57:54 am »
Are you looking for minimal mass per stiffness?
much of the stiffness is determined by the outside diameter at the middle of the shaft. Hollowing of the core can reduce mass without affecting stiffness too much, but a heavier core might be not be effective if low mass is important.

 I would think that grain orientation would have it's greatest effect when the grain is coarser, and with woods that have large density differences between early and late woods. (ash, doug fir etc.) , but it might be difficult to utilize any advantages.

Offline DC

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2016, 12:27:23 pm »
Does the glue joint orientation affect the stiffness in that direction?  I'm not even sure I understand that question but I'll hope for the best ;D
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2016, 01:34:38 pm »
Does the glue joint orientation affect the stiffness in that direction?  I'm not even sure I understand that question but I'll hope for the best ;D

It seems to, that is why I tried to make some with a joint going both up and down, and side to side. So =l=
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

mikekeswick

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2016, 11:24:03 pm »
The way to make the cane arrows is how to make wooden arrows like this...just the wooden arrows are easier!
What is your goal? The best flight arrows? Tonkin is better than wood for this application.
Yes wood has different stiffness in different grain orientations. It is stiffest when bent at 90degs to 1/4 sawn. Horn has low bending resistance compared to wood and is 1.3s.g. so would be a poor choice to go inside a hollow shaft. You would want highest stiffness for density. Something like purpleheart or b.locust.
Also remember that all the 'modern' laminated wood shafts are made that way simply so they can use less than perfect stock and still get a pretty strong, resistant to breakage arrow. The gluelines in themselves don't help much to increase stiffness per se.

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2016, 09:16:52 am »
I think the glue line does increase spine a bit, But I am sure that it does increase the elasticity of the wood.
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline willie

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2016, 10:26:23 am »
Mike
just curious, but doesn't something like spruce have the highest stiffness per density?

Offline Badger

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 10:50:51 am »
   Willie, I think with flight arrows we actually need to use denser woods, stiffness is always an issue. I have had the best luck with purple heart and larch so far. Some doug fir I have found is dense and stiff as well.