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the real ticket is "group tuning"

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TSA:
Pat is absolutely correct, arrow nocked, and arrow at full draw on a wider arrow pass will be two different pictures.
if you were using a modern ::) bow that was cut past center- so that the  arrow was pretty much on the centerline of the bow, only then would the sight picture look the same at just knocked and at full draw.
if that makes sense.
dont be shy to ask, and  ask again till you get the answer you are looking for. sometimes its very difficult to get the picture out of one persons head into another persons head.
you keep asking, we will keep explaining  until it all makes sense. dont be shy!no one was born with this knowledge pre-programmed, everyone had to learn it!  ;)

TSA:
Willie, re- reading the second part of your question, i will try and address that.
the primary purpose of the bareshaft tuning is to get the bareshaft sticking into the target with no left or right alignment, when it does that- then that will be the spine that matches your bow. thats the key here. if i understand your concern correctly, different spines on your self bow, will not create a different sight picture,in other words, irrespective of spine of the shaft, the sight picture's will all look the same. the softer/weaker spines  will simply better match your bow better from a flight perspective, once the arrow leaves the bow!

using split vision "aiming" as Howard Hill used, is a very effective method of shooting, you may find as you shoot more and more- you might start to notice the arrow less at full draw, but at least intially it helps you get a windage alignment on the target, which just removes one of the variables from true instinctive shooting, which is a great help in the beginning for many folk, myself included.
now the split vision, where you focus primarily on the intended target, and the arrow is seen in your peripheral vision, and you align it for the left and right  variation, whilst relying on your instinctive shooting to adjust for the up and down( elevation), will only be relevant once the bow is at full draw, your arrow point at just knocked, and not drawn back will probably be no where near your point of impact( unless of course you had a center cut bow). drawing back to full draw, will change the sight picture, and thats the sight picture you need to be looking at, not the un-drawn picture- dont worry about that one- it will naturally be out of whack.

so in short, the pre shot sight picture has nothing to do with the spine of the arrow.
but the spine is important, for the performance of the arrow in flight, will ensure better accuracy, better recovery from paradox, and better penetration.

now here are some curve balls!!

always do your bare shafting with the bow vertical- i find this the toughest!- otherwise you will get confusing readings- imagine if you cant your bow over, and your arrow shows nock left- which is weak for a right handed shooter, but now the arrow looks like it is both weak and nock high, when in reality it may not be nock high!

make sure your form is good, inconsistant form will show different results, thats why dont make adjustments with just one shot, shoot multiple shots, and look at the average.
getting consistant draw length is the key here.
imagine that by trimming a shaft a 1/4" at a time, makes difference on the spine of the shaft, imagine now that by short drawing or over drawing by a 1/4" , that it too will make a difference on the spine performance of the arrow. ( i can go into more detail on this point if you would like)

all of this is only relevant when you are bareshafting, once you are fletched, those minor differences and errors will be compensated for by the correction ability of the fletching.

so in short, make every effort to make the bareshafting as accurate as you can, but dont beat yourself up, once the shafts are fletched up, they will cover a comedy of errors, trhats why we do it, its a shooting aid. the fletching is there to fix our errors, they aint just for purdy, or cos thats what an arrow has.they are a stabilizer-like fins on a rocket!! :)

willie:
Wayne, thanks for the practical tips on bareshafting. What I am reading here is that once the bareshaft arrow flies dead on, one should not worry if a point-on aim is working out or not, but one can develop a more "instinctive' sight picture if it is not?

Don't know how the sight picture of an undrawn arrow crept into the discussion, not my question at all, but accurate descriptive writing is not easy sometimes.
thanks

TSA:
yup mate, it can get kinda confusing, i guess thats how the notorious Facebook battles start ::)

yes you can "aim" truly instinctively, without ever looking at the shaft. but at full draw the split vision can be a great help too. as with  a properly tuned setup- the arrow point should be either in line, or very close to being inline( dependant on your head position) with the target.

i agree that a well tuned setup is key, this is one way of doing it, others will take a bunch of different arrows out and shoot them till they find one that works,  then replicate that. some paper tune!
whatever works, is best i guess! as long as it is well tuned.
now if you start shooting broadheads- they will tell a different story again- and may look contrary to other lessons learnt in bareshafting.
cheers mate

loon:
So if the arrows are tuned with the bow vertical, will they be tuned "enough" if it's canted?

Thanks Wayne

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