Author Topic: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?  (Read 1392 times)

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Offline Pat B

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2017, 08:37:40 am »
If it is well sealed after the glue dries that shouldn't be a problem. If the shin is tanned I wouldn't use hide glue but the carpenters glue.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline mullet

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2017, 06:30:02 am »
I've never used tanned skins for the same reasons Pat said. I think if I did i'd use Contact cement to glue it on rather then wet it and using a glue like Tightbond.
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Offline Jedi45

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2017, 07:34:24 am »
Wow Pat B really does have all the answers! It must be that 200+ years of experience. This has been a very insightful discussion as I am hoping to try snake skin soon! Thanks guys!

Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2017, 08:55:56 am »
Some of the best Bowyer's on this site gave you some of the best info out there for applying a snake skin. 
Although I have used tanned snake skins on several bows with great success.  Now the skins I get are from a leather shop and are actually comercialy tanned.  I have figured out a process to get them to adhear very nicely.  Its actually not that much different than a dried skin.  And it smells better too! Ill try to write up a post and put it out there for all to see.  But if you want some more one on one just send me a message and we can talk on the phone.  Its easier for me that way.  Good luck and post pictures!

Patrick
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline RedBear1313

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2017, 01:53:13 pm »
Some of the best Bowyer's on this site gave you some of the best info out there for applying a snake skin. 
Although I have used tanned snake skins on several bows with great success.  Now the skins I get are from a leather shop and are actually comercialy tanned.  I have figured out a process to get them to adhear very nicely.  Its actually not that much different than a dried skin.  And it smells better too! Ill try to write up a post and put it out there for all to see.  But if you want some more one on one just send me a message and we can talk on the phone.  Its easier for me that way.  Good luck and post pictures!

Patrick

I got the skin off of ebay.
I asked them and they said they are a distributor, they use a 'synthetic tanning agent by BASF and it contains no chromes'
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Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2017, 04:54:36 pm »
Ok after some searching I found where I had replied to a similar questions a year or two ago.  Im just pasting my response here. 

"Well as far as the tanned skin goes. I agree that a air dried skin would be easier and better. But I'm a pore/cheap Bowyer. I've used tanned skins almost every time I put them on a bow. The thing about them are, you have to do a little more work when putting them on. First of all, take some tape or something sticky and remove as much of the "tanned" part on the back that is loose and will come off. That step is important, if you don't, it will peal right off like velcro after its glued to your bow.

Next, before your ready to apply the skins, most people soak them in water. DON'T DO THAT with a tanned skin. I take a damp wrap and wipe down the tanned side while applying a little pressure. This softens the skin a little and finishes removing any loose pieces. Then I let the skin dry.

Next, I take the skin a "flex" it around to make sure that the water didn't make any stiff areas in it. I will sometimes use the tape again just to be certain that all the loose particles are gone.

Now you are ready to figure out your pattern on your bow that you want. You can cut the skin down a bit. But leave it with enough that you have some room for adjustment.

When your ready and you have test fitted your skin. Prep the back of your bow for gluing. I use PatB's method. Wash the back with dawn dish soap and rinse with boiling water. I use tight bond 3 to apply the skin. First apply a thin coat of glue to both the bow and the skin to "size" them. The skin will such up a good bit of the glue. Be sure to get the glue on every part of the surface that you want the skin to be glued to. Do your best not to get glue on the wrong side of the skin.

Once the glue has dried to a very tacky state. Apply a fair layer of glue to both pieces and carefully apply the skin to the back.

Work from the handle to the tip pressing and smoothing out any air bubbles and clumps of glue. Keep doing this till you have a nice smooth application. Then repeat for the other side. 

It's a good idea to clean up any excess glue before it starts to set up. Also don't move the skin after it is tacky. This will screw up the adhesion.

I let mine set for about a week in a dry warm location. Then I use the smooth side of my farriers rasp at a downward angle to "file"  off and clean up the edges. Always work from the back to the belly at a slight angle. I also use a card scraper to clean up only the glue on the edges of the bow. You will know if the glue is cured, if it scrapes like wood. If not set it up for a few more days. I also us a sanding block to help clean up the edges.

I have never had a tanned skin come loose with this process. One of them on a bow has probably been shot 2000 times. Hope this helps. "

The only thing I could add is when you are cleaning up the edges on a tanned skin sometimes they will be fuzzy and hard to get a crisp edge.  Just get them uniformed and apply a little superglue down the edge.  Do your best to not get it on the back of the skin.  It will darken it.  After the superglue is dry, lightly sand the edge.  Then apply you finish and let the first coat cure.  Then burnish the edge of the skin. And you should be golden! I sometimes use a black marker and just ever so slightly run the edge of the skin.  I think it gives it a nice contrast.  But thats up to you. 

Patrick
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline ntvbowyer1969

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2017, 09:43:56 pm »
for wood tip overlays I use titebond3 on horn tips I use titebond gel CA glue. the gel seems to work better than the thin fast setting glue,the gel still sets up in 15 sec. or so. I wait three hours until I shape them. For the snake skins I use a coat to back of the bow first with tite bond 3 .after it is dried I then put another coat of tite bond 3 and roll the skins from handle to tip. Make sure to work the air bubbles out and let dry over night.next day you can trim and remove scales before finish. I always use truoil. its easy to apply and dries great in between coats. I do three coats.00 steel wool and apply another coat sanding lightly with 00 steel wool in between the next three coats with 6 total coats.

Offline RedBear1313

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2017, 02:45:08 pm »
would you guys say it might be a good idea, when sizing the bow and skin being put on, to thin the glue with water for the sizing coats, especially the glue being used for sizing the tanned skin, since it will soak some extra up?
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Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 09:40:23 am »
would you guys say it might be a good idea, when sizing the bow and skin being put on, to thin the glue with water for the sizing coats, especially the glue being used for sizing the tanned skin, since it will soak some extra up?

Yes,  I do that quite offten and I use a small 1 inch paint brush to apply the glue,  I get a good even coat that way.

Patrick
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline RedBear1313

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2018, 08:27:16 am »
Well guys here are some progress pics.

one layer of sinew down been drying a few days.

going to do some minor fill in and then lay down one more layer today and then I think I'll call it good.

what do you think so far?
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Offline Pat B

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2018, 08:53:27 am »
Looks good. Let the sinew cure out well before stressing. The only thin I see that might be a problem it not pre-shaping the tip overlays. It can be difficult getting them to blend back into the limb tip when they are on the tips. I like to get the inner end to a thin, feathered shape before gluing them down.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline RedBear1313

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2018, 09:09:00 am »
figured it would be easier to shape such a small piece of wood after I attached it, gives me something to hold onto to.

plus I'm still not fully decided on how to shape the tip ov.lay yet.
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Offline Pat B

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2018, 10:43:50 am »
Getting a good feathered edge where the overlay meets the limb first eliminates the chance of screwing up the sinew of bows back at that point while shaping and sanding. You can leave the rest of it bulky but getting that edge thinned first is simpler with fewer problems later.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline RedBear1313

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Re: snakeskin backing? dried or tanned?
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2018, 08:41:05 pm »
Second and (what I intended to be) last layer of sinew layed down.

been sitting in the semi heated garage that hovers in the mid to upper 60's curing for just a few days now.

Will these splits be a problem and what causes it/how can you prevent it?

they don't appear to have actually raised off the wood, as in delam.

but it seems one area is pulling stronger than the other exposing small amounts of wood.

I sized several coats starting with a very thin layer gradually adding more hide glue, to the final sizing coat of a non diluted layer of hide glue before any sinew was laid down.

I pre soaked and let dry slightly (that really did seem to help the sinew become saturated with hide glue) the strands I laid down, combing and massaging them after pre soak.
Hold on to what you can't remember, make sense of what you can't decipher.