Author Topic: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point  (Read 1446 times)

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Offline Philipp A

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Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« on: February 12, 2019, 06:41:42 pm »
Hi all,

Here is my latest venture. I used one of my white ash arrows I have made from scratch and hafted on an obsidian point made by Steve Allely. This time I tried two feather fledging using turkey tail feathers by leaving the tips of the feathers on. I have always wanted to do this because they are beautiful and I always thought it was a shame having to cut the tips off the tail feathers in order to make three feather fledging. It is a bit different from the traditional method for two feather fledging where one bends around the end of the feather first and sinew wraps it onto the arrow and then subsequently sinew wraps the front afterwards.

Let me know what you think of it. I am including both the google photo link for higher resolution of the pictures and more pics and include some of the pics in here with the posting.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VrmQEcLR8HHvRMZp9

Here are the measurements for the arrow:

Length: tip to throat of nock 29.25"
Spine: 49
Thickness: 5/16
Weight: 571 grains, including obsidian point @ 95 grains
FOC: 7.8%

Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 07:58:27 pm »
Nice!  Quite a bit of twist on the fletch!  I'll have to try the tail feathers.  Do you think they would hold up to hunting?
Hawkdancer
Life is far too serious to be taken that way!
Jerry

Offline JEB

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 02:36:07 am »
I would think that would be a noisy arrow with that fletch. Have you shot it yet?  Did you use the verita dowel maker to make the shafts? If so how did that work?

Offline ohma2

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 05:17:35 am »
Thats a good lookin arrow but i have to say thats a lot of feather .i havent used tail feather but i think they are softer than wing primary so maybe quiter.

Offline Philipp A

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 06:56:24 am »
Hi all,

thanks for the feedback, I will try to answer all the questions:

1) Ohma2 : I have left on purpose enough width on the feather because as you know you can always cut off more but can't put it back. I will produce another arrow with the same two fledge design but with the difference of mounting a field point so I can comfortably shoot it without having to worry of busting the gorgeous obsidian point made by Steve Allely. I do suspect that with the tips of the tail feathers still intact the arrow should not be too noisy because they are free to move and hopefully will dampen any vortices generated.

2) JEB: as answered above I have not yet shot the arrow and wanted to make an equivalent with a field point first before I shoot it with the obsidian point. I do use the Veritas down maker for making the shafts and it worked really well. The table that listed the adjustments for the sizing of the dowels did for some reason not work for me and I had to make a few adjustments beyond the listed settings until I had the arrow size I was after. I have settled on the 5/16 size. If I can maintain a consistent spine on the arrows I think they will be fast and hard hitting. I had a bit of trouble controlling the speed of the feed through the dowel maker and on a few of them when I tried to slow down the feed it pulled the arrow off the socket supplied for the drill to drive the dowel. I then settled to just let the dowel maker determine the speed of the feed and not try to slow it down and the arrows turned out pretty consistently thereafter. I would be happy from others that are using it for any feedback on how to better control the speed.

I have shot my three feather fledged white ash arrows made with the tool and they performed just as well in comparison to my purchased arrow blanks. I actually achieved a bit more distance and had a nice smooth release without wobble. 

3) Hawkdancer: the twist is exactly the way it is shown in the Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows & Quivers (Volume 1) written by Steve Allely and Jim Hamm except I don't have as wide a gap to the shaft in the midsection of the fledging. A good example of it is on page 50 where it depicts a Seneca hardwood shaft with hawk tail feathers. On page 92 it also shows similar fledging with a turkey tail feather but in that case there is a wider gap to the shaft from each side of the feather mounted on the shaft. It will be interesting to see what impact that has on the aerodynamic behaviour of the arrow. I have mounted it a bit differently for the reasons listed in my post (I wanted to preserve the tips of the turkey feathers) but the twist is the same.

Offline Philipp A

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 09:14:24 am »
Hawkdancer: I forgot to answer your question about whether I think the arrow would hold up to hunting. I am pretty confident that it will (other than potential damage to the obsidian point). While the fledging is not spiral wrapped when reviewing literature on what Native American tribes have used, the two fledged solution held only with sinew wrapping in the front and back seemed to be pretty dominant. I acknowledge that my sinew wrap at a single point on the back of the fledging might be a bit more fragile, but I don't think there is a lot of mechanical force or rubbing at that point since it will clear the bow and not rub against it when the arrow passes (see nock position).

I will know more once I have made another arrow with the same fledge design but with a field point I can then put to the test verses traditionally three feather fledged arrows.

Stay tuned, I will let you know once I have made the additional arrow and have the results....

Offline Brotherhood Bows

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 09:48:25 am »
Hey Phillip!

What a beautiful set of arrows you have there, any plans to do heavy duty 1/2" Warbow arrows in that gorgeous colouring and fletching style? I would love to see a set for some bigger draw weights.

-Ben

Offline Pat B

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2019, 10:44:29 am »
Cherokee 2 fletch is one of my favorites. Nice looking arrows.  :OK
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Philipp A

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 10:58:33 am »
Thanks Ben, with my Veritas dowel maker I can vary the size of the arrow it makes. Other than white ash I have beautiful straight yellow birch logs and also HHB logs. I expect it will be somewhat difficult to get HHB arrows made with the dowel maker but I will nevertheless also give it a try. Due to the weight and strength of HHB (and the other hardwoods) I am not sure whether I would want to go to 1/2" for war bow arrows since this would have the effect of dramatically reducing my FOC percentage (the weight of the wood significantly reduces the impact of the obsidian point to assist in FOC). I think if I go to 11/32" for arrow size it would sufficiently increase the spine number for the higher draw weight of a war bow. I think I would have to add at least a 125 grains point to get to an acceptable FOC percentage

What draw weight do you have on your war bow?

Offline Philipp A

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 11:08:06 am »
Thanks Pat!

I have a question for you if you have made a bunch of two fletched arrows. How does the flight compare to the three feather fletched arrows? Does the gap to the shaft have any impact on the performance?

I love the looks of it but still need to make a field tipped version of it to test the performance (I am protective of my Steve Allely obsidian points....the only way I would sacrifice one is to put a deer in my freezer   :D )

To be honest what prompted me to try it is the beauty of the turkey tail feather with the tip intact and browsing through the Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows & Quivers....I think it will take me a lifetime to try out all the arrows and bows depicted in the book!

Offline Pat B

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 01:21:21 pm »
You can make 2 fletch fly as well as any other fletching style. One way to get the quill to lay flatter(well, 2 ways) is first to hydrate the feathers which will soften the quill, tie them to the shaft and when it dries it will hold it's shape. The other way is to lay the feathers with the outside of the feather against the shaft, opposite to the way you have them. The colors aren't quite as vibrant but it is a trade off. You can play with the shape of the fletching also to "fine tune" it to your liking and help reduce noise. The last few I've made I shape the fletching with my feather burner to a specific shape which in similar to my 3 fletch shape.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Philipp A

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 01:27:00 pm »
Thanks Pat great advice! Can you post some pictures of the ones you made so I have an idea how they look?

Offline mullet

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 04:14:14 pm »
That is a very nice arrow. I've made them with the tight twist you did with this one and they are very noisy unless you trim the fletching very short. Now I just make the traditional look, must be a reason they stuck to that style when eating depended on a good shot.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Philipp A

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 05:03:11 pm »
Thanks mullet, your feedback is much appreciated! So I properly understand your comment, did you make your arrows with the air gap between the arrow and the feather or just less of a twist?

Offline TSA

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Re: Two feather fledged white ash arrow with obsidian point
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2019, 05:50:35 am »
beautiful arrows and craftsmanship  :OK
like Pat, i too love the two fletch. they are a great arrow- that uses fletching that otherwise might not get used.
great pointers by Pat there- i am going to try hydrating the fletches and applying them "inside out" next time.