Author Topic: Cracks between growth rings  (Read 5243 times)

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Offline Pat B

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2019, 09:02:40 am »
I call them wind shakes. My understanding is it is cause when heavy winds twist trees causing this kind of "delamination" or crack.
Drying checks occur on the ends and along the surface of a ring, not along the side.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline sleek

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2019, 09:41:37 am »
Drying checks occur when the outside dries and shrinks faster than the inside, causing it to check/split on the outside as it shrinks. Those cracks, run 90° to the rings. Any other crack isn't from frying, it's from other stresses, such as torsional, or impact.
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Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2019, 09:53:29 am »
back in the day, when osage was hard for me to get,, I would try anthing ,, just to see what would happnen,, made several bows with side checks,, that were ok,, but keep in mind, the bows was over built,, not stressing the wood to the max,, those do look bad,, if I tried it I would have no expection of success,,, but might be interesting to see if it worked at all,,

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2019, 10:48:35 am »
I really don't have much experience with the wind checking or whatever we call it. It's a little hard to tell from pictures but if I'm seeing it right on my phone. Does it seem like all the early wood rings are very thin with thick late growth rings? Just wondering if that could be a reason for it. Could it be it growing conditions. Short spring and winter? Longer summer. Maybe coupled with a specific location? Exposed to wind. Don't mind me. I'm just thinking out loud. Almost like talking to myself.
Bjrogg
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Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2019, 11:30:06 am »
This bow had multiple shakes along one edge.  I was able to narrow down past all but this one.  Ditto Arvin, I took and cleaned out any loose material with a razor.  It was only about 1/8 inch deep by now as I had trimmed most of it away.  I filled with CA glue and did not clamp it.  Next day I filled it again, and then once again until it would take no more.  This one may be the exception to the rule but never a problem.
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2019, 11:35:26 am »
BJ, Like sleek said it is from torsion forces from wind. The reason it affects the early ring is because the early ring is corky and has less body.
 Slimbob, can you narrow the stave to eliminate the shakes? I would have also filled with super glue but tried to narrow the stave to eliminate the visible shake.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline TimBo

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2019, 03:32:21 pm »
Just to clarify, I think those photos (on the original post) are of the side of the stave, yes?  I think some of you are looking at them as if they are showing the back, but I think they are all sides...and so definitely between the rings. 

Offline gifford

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2019, 03:45:59 pm »
Got a pretty nice stave, deep enough for a nice belly split. Real close inspection after it set for a while in the basement revealed some serious wind shake. Sign. I did get the belly split, super sweet stave, but the upper half was able to yield a  couple of slats fine for some kid's bows. First time that has happened to me, Just the breaks, no pun intended.

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2019, 04:27:10 pm »
Yeah I get the wind shake thing, but that's not always the reason for side checks. Some of you guys' explanations don't jive with my experience. For instance, a friend and I each took half of the stave's home from a tree we cut. ALL of his got numerous drying checks on the sides. NONE of mine got so much as a single check. The only difference was how we cared for them once we took them home. He was new at this, and I knew of how and where he planned to store them, with forced air from a wood burner blowing in the room and warned him, but... all ruined. I wasn't surprised when I saw them. Dang shame. They were beauts. I still have a few of mine left that didn't get 'shook'  :OK
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline PatM

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2019, 06:14:38 pm »
I see no reason why a stave can't separate on the growth rings from just drying stresses.  It's already a weak spot.  At least in very ring porous woods.
Think of how easily you can often split a piggyback stave.

 I'm actually a bit surprised that Osage, Ash and Locust don't just crumble apart along those rings through the years through repeated flexing.
 
 If there was a glue that cured to an early wood type consistency we would expect that.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2019, 06:17:18 pm »
some people have access to more wood,, so they can be a bit more discriminating on what they will use,,
so I dont fault anyone for trying a marginal piece of wood,, with realistic expectations,, I have been there and get it totally,, here is a pic with a long bow with side checks,, not saying its the best ,, but sometimes its worth the investment in time,, and will improve your skill level even if that bow is a failure,,
I still have this bow,, its about 25 years old,, I just cant pull it anymore,, (W

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2019, 06:38:22 pm »
Very cool!
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline osage outlaw

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2019, 06:45:04 pm »
I split a lot of osage and very rarely have any issues with side checks.  I cut a small dark red osage tree that was super hard and dense.  Every stave developed side cracks after it dried.  I've been able to remove them and made great bows from that wood.

I've noticed if I drawknife the side flat on a fresh cut stave it will often crack as it dries.   If I seal it with glue they don't crack.  These are just my observations from handling a lot of osage.
I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2019, 07:18:48 pm »
thats great advice to put glue on the sides,, :BB

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: Cracks between growth rings
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2019, 07:29:39 pm »
ive Had end checks happen before I could get the log into the truck literally minutes after it was felled. Drying checks along the back have been more than common. I made a bow a few years ago from a beautiful darkish stave I got out of Oklahoma. I got a belly split off of it and put it in my shop while I worked on the back split. Not a check one on the back split. Several months later I tackled the belly split and chased a ring on the back. It checked on me before I reached the end of the stave. Bad enough that I couldn’t use it. Very odd that the upper part was perfectly fine. The few that had cracks along the sides all had been exposed to the weather to some degree I think. Wind shakes (Delams) have been a rarity for me.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.