Author Topic: Block plane tear out  (Read 2350 times)

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Offline Mpares

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Block plane tear out
« on: April 12, 2020, 11:37:58 pm »
Hey guys,
So I'm making my first 2  board bows, making 2 just for the extra experience, and I have been having a lot of trouble with tear out when tilling with my block plane. Does anyone have any advice for this? I have just sharpened the blade, the 2 boards are off the same rack and 1 board had a few minor defects to begin with. I can upload some pictures later. I decided when I bought these boards I would be ok if neither turned out, but I want to make sure atleast I'm practicing properly and not doing something completely backwards.
Thanks for the help in advance!
 

Offline Woodely

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2020, 12:00:25 am »
Google it first. Practise and do lots of it.
"Doing bad work is an exercise in futility, but honestly making mistakes is trying your best."

Offline mmattockx

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2020, 12:07:24 am »
What kind of wood? Is the grain straight or at all funky? Have you planed other hardwoods with this plane with success prior to this? Is the plane set up properly to take very light cuts?


Mark

Online Del the cat

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    • Derek Hutchison Native Wood Self Bows
Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2020, 01:05:19 am »
Lot's of things may help... but in the end some areas just won't plane well... take a pencil and write "R" on those area to remind you to use a rasp.
Things that help:-
1. Sharp blade.
3. Hold the plane at an angle rather than square on to the direction of travel, so that it slices rather than chisels.
E.G  \  ->   rather than  |  ->
3. Try planing from opposite direction
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline stuckinthemud

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    • avenue woodcarving
Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2020, 04:34:19 am »
Try planing across the bow but there is a reason low angle block planes were invented. Some grain is too curly to plane so switch to a rasp or scraper. 

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2020, 07:46:33 am »
I would ditch the block plane for a card scraper or file.

I use a half pair of scissors and roll a hook on them with an Accu Sharp scissors sharpener.



 

Offline bassman

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2020, 07:53:03 am »
I have never used a block plane to reduce wood on a stave ,or board.I use a draw knife, a sharp knife ,and a series of good wood rasps, and if I think their is going to be a potential tear out such as knots I use nothing but the rasps. I learned that the hard way. Just my way, but their are other ways too that are may be better, but that is what works best for me.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2020, 09:19:22 am »
If you start pulling out chunks of wood, use a rasp and/or micro-plane instead.
Gordon

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2020, 11:42:27 am »
Like Del said turn yourself or the stock around. Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Hamish

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2020, 08:26:12 pm »
What sort of block plane do you have? eg low angle bed 12 deg, or a normal angle 20 deg bed. Some people call any hand held plane a block plane. On block planes you can see the bevel of the blade, ie bevel up. Bevel down blades are regular handplanes.

Say you have a low angle plane, with a 30 deg bevel on the blade, you effectively have a plane that attacks the wood at 42 deg(30+ 12).
This is a good for straight grained softwoods or end grain, not so good for hardwood or spots of swirling grain or knots.

A normal angle block plane, with a 30 deg bevel on the blade, you have a plane the attacks the wood at 50 deg. This is better for hardwoods. Even so 50 deg may not be enough in some woods to stop tear out. You could increase the bevel to 35 deg, which gives your plane 55 deg, which can deal with tricky wood even better.

60 deg is probably the best angle of attack for a plane, for tricky wood. Higher than that, up to 90 deg are usually termed scraper planes.

To get 60 deg or higher angle with a block plane you have to put a back bevel on the blade(the side of the blade against the plane's bed).
eg normal angle block plane 20 deg bed, 35deg primary bevel, 5 deg back bevel. 60 deg total angle.
low angle block plane 12 deg bed angle, 35 deg primary bevel, 10 deg back bevel 57 deg total angle.

"      "         "      "       "   "     "      "      "      "       "        "     , 15 deg back bevel  63 deg total angle.

If you have a plane with an adjustable throat, you can reduce tear out by closing it down as much as possible, and only taking a shallow shaving.

Offline Mpares

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2020, 09:54:49 pm »
Google it first. Practise and do lots of it.
Been doing some googling, this is just extra research. Most everything I found on google was about hand planers as opposed to block planers and I've tried some of the suggestions, I.E sharpening the blade, which I'm going to do again as it's not quite where I want it and messing the planer. I'm just looking for some bowyer specific advise here :) Also my mouth of my block planer is not adjustable which was the main suggestion I found

Offline Mpares

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2020, 10:03:56 pm »
What kind of wood? Is the grain straight or at all funky? Have you planed other hardwoods with this plane with success prior to this? Is the plane set up properly to take very light cuts?


Mark
The wood is pretty straight, 1 board has run off at one point but other than that it's pretty good, my only concern was that one board also had a couple of spots of tear-out when I bought it and they're probably made from the same tree. Haven't had any success yet as this is my first project. Any advice on some setup videos or particular tutorials you've used in the past?

Offline Mpares

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2020, 10:08:39 pm »
I would ditch the block plane for a card scraper or file.

I use a half pair of scissors and roll a hook on them with an Accu Sharp scissors sharpener.


Thanks Eric! Do you have any recommendations on card scraper brands? I'm pretty good a getting my knives sharp using some water stones I have but I think I would rather attempt it was an actual card scraper before modifying some scissors!

Offline Mpares

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2020, 10:12:52 pm »
What sort of block plane do you have? eg low angle bed 12 deg, or a normal angle 20 deg bed. Some people call any hand held plane a block plane. On block planes you can see the bevel of the blade, ie bevel up. Bevel down blades are regular handplanes.

Say you have a low angle plane, with a 30 deg bevel on the blade, you effectively have a plane that attacks the wood at 42 deg(30+ 12).
This is a good for straight grained softwoods or end grain, not so good for hardwood or spots of swirling grain or knots.

A normal angle block plane, with a 30 deg bevel on the blade, you have a plane the attacks the wood at 50 deg. This is better for hardwoods. Even so 50 deg may not be enough in some woods to stop tear out. You could increase the bevel to 35 deg, which gives your plane 55 deg, which can deal with tricky wood even better.

60 deg is probably the best angle of attack for a plane, for tricky wood. Higher than that, up to 90 deg are usually termed scraper planes.

To get 60 deg or higher angle with a block plane you have to put a back bevel on the blade(the side of the blade against the plane's bed).
eg normal angle block plane 20 deg bed, 35deg primary bevel, 5 deg back bevel. 60 deg total angle.
low angle block plane 12 deg bed angle, 35 deg primary bevel, 10 deg back bevel 57 deg total angle.

"      "         "      "       "   "     "      "      "      "       "        "     , 15 deg back bevel  63 deg total angle.

If you have a plane with an adjustable throat, you can reduce tear out by closing it down as much as possible, and only taking a shallow shaving.
Thanks Hamish, It's got a 25deg bevel on it and I believe the angle is about 22.5deg, so just shy of 45deg or maybe even bang on. Not sure how I would go about increasing the angle but I can watch some videos on that. I might look into a low angle block plane or even one with and adjustable throat. I would also be interested in trying out some of the other tools people have suggested.

Offline mmattockx

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Re: Block plane tear out
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2020, 10:15:43 pm »
The wood is pretty straight, 1 board has run off at one point but other than that it's pretty good, my only concern was that one board also had a couple of spots of tear-out when I bought it and they're probably made from the same tree. Haven't had any success yet as this is my first project. Any advice on some setup videos or particular tutorials you've used in the past?

The reason I ask about your past success is because planing on a soft piece of spruce is dead easy compared to most of the hard woods bows are made from. There has been a lot of good advice posted here already, but I would suggest using a rasp instead as it is so much easier to remove wood and it is more versatile for getting into tighter spaces than a plane. If you are dead set on using the plane, have a look at these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBFfFhQzkhY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYiALzXkOWk&list=WL&index=6&t=843s


Mark