is holding reflex overrated

[bradsmith2010]

well,,

[Yooper Bowyer]

I really hope so, I have a hard time keeping much.   

When I tried to string that tempered HHB sinew plains bow with 4" reflex it was nearly impossible.  I like anything from 1.5" reflex to 1" string follow on my longbows. 

[scp]

I am beginning to think that Scythians had found a better way to keep the reflex or setback. I was wondering why on earth they added tree bark on the belly to the much stronger oak stave. It appears that they were pre-stressing the bow limbs. In a sense reflexing is pre-stressing the limbs in the process of bracing the bow. But the limbs can be pre-stressed by adding a lath to the belly of the core and gluing them together. It's actually easier to pre-stress such limbs by binding them together while bending both, with tendon/sinew or even just leather strips. That means pre-stressed reflexing is thousands years old. This can also explain the unusual power of rather short Scythian bows.

If you want to keep the full reflex, just glue a relatively thin lath to the belly. Just a theory. I don't do such tinkering myself. But that's what they do in making full composite bows.

[bradsmith2010]

I like the performance, it looks good in photos, I strive for it,,
but I am hunting with a bow that follows the string,, so for me,,there are other factors , im not sure what, that make a bow desirable for me to shoot,, I think in my old age, if the bow shoots hard enough to be effective at taking the game I am hunting, the unbraced profile, is not as important as I once thought,, but I still like to strive for holding reflex or not taking set when I make a bow,, just thinking out loud,,

[vinemaplebows]

No. If you can hit the target accurately, it should be the only factor in my opinion. String follow, or reflex is only important to builders and people looking for a possible competetive edge, animals could care less.

[Pat B]

Brad and Bryan, I agree with both of you. If you have a 60# bow that has 2" of string follow that you can comfortably shoot consistently and accurately why use a 60# bow with 2" of reflex that you only shoot OK. I think it is a good idea when you begin your bow building voyage to try to achieve the best bow you can build. After some experience you'll come to the conclusion of what really matters to you.

[SLIMBOB]

As a hunter, or shooter, I don’t care. As a bow maker, I do care. I want it told the reflex as though it were FG. It rarely does.

[Pat B]

...and rarely will, Bob. That's just the nature of the beast.

[SLIMBOB]

No question but you’re right Pat. “Rarely” is being generous. I have only a few that held the shape it started with (mostly). I don’t necessarily shoot any better with them.

[HanibalLecter(InnerSmile)]

I really hope so, I have a hard time keeping much.   

When I tried to string that tempered HHB sinew plains bow with 4" reflex it was nearly impossible.  I like anything from 1.5" reflex to 1" string follow on my longbows.

4" reflex becomes nothing if you warm your bow over a small fire  or heat source prior to stringing it. Also, you can use tepeliks to aid your stringing of the bow.

[HanibalLecter(InnerSmile)]

I am beginning to think that Scythians had found a better way to keep the reflex or setback. I was wondering why on earth they added tree bark on the belly to the much stronger oak stave. It appears that they were pre-stressing the bow limbs. In a sense reflexing is pre-stressing the limbs in the process of bracing the bow. But the limbs can be pre-stressed by adding a lath to the belly of the core and gluing them together. It's actually easier to pre-stress such limbs by binding them together while bending both, with tendon/sinew or even just leather strips. That means pre-stressed reflexing is thousands years old. This can also explain the unusual power of rather short Scythian bows.

If you want to keep the full reflex, just glue a relatively thin lath to the belly. Just a theory. I don't do such tinkering myself. But that's what they do in making full composite bows.

I think you are on to something....


In one of the Scythian sinew-wood-horn composite bows from Yanghai, its owner had actually tied a wood plate over the horn belly piece... Making it a sinew-wood-horn-wood composite!!!

https://www.atarn.org/chinese/Yanghai/yanghai.htm

[Pat B]

I would not try to brace a heated bow for any reason. Sounds like a disaster to me.
 What is the "tepeliks" you are referring to?   

[HanibalLecter(InnerSmile)]

I would not try to brace a heated bow for any reason. Sounds like a disaster to me.
 What is the "tepeliks" you are referring to?   

Tepelik is the Turkish word for the curved wooden forms than are used in stringing the Turkish bows, Scythian bowyers used them as well. The bows are gently heated to temporarily reduce their stiffness and then bent on to the tepelik forms (using cordage), then the bow is strung and the tepeliks are removed.





See the 9:14 minute mark of this video for an extreme demonstration:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDLEgELhK6I

[Dances with squirrels]

Overrated? Often yes. Completely without merit? No.

[Pat B]

 Hanibal, I'm familiar with the device but I wasn't familiar with the terminology. How does the tepelik relate to Brads original question?