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Bows / Re: The best shape for a reflexed bow?
« Last post by simk on Today at 07:22:28 am »
My guts say that energy storage is less a matter of tiller than of bowlength and reflex.
To best use the stored energy it needs the optimized tiller. Tillershape is very important imho. and the max strain capacities of the material will define your tiller options.
Looking at actual flightbows I seldom see even strain in the limbs  ;D With wood: the heavier the bow I make the more I go for even strain. The lighter the bow, the more I stress the wood and tiller. jm2c
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Bows / Re: The best shape for a reflexed bow?
« Last post by Tuomo on Today at 06:58:18 am »
Now we are getting to the core of bow design! And it seems that Simk knows something about bows (I knew that already...)!

Your questions:

Why the same taper? Because I didn’t want to optimize every bow model; I just wanted to compare different models while eliminating as many variables as possible. That’s why the front profile was quite normal—40 mm at the widest and 10 mm at the tips, with a realistic width taper. In computer models, you can always make the tips narrower and narrower to get more speed, but that isn’t reasonable in real life. Optimizing the taper rate has a very minor effect. When I used the same taper rate (0.008), every model had very similar stress curves, and the stresses were distributed quite evenly. So: little to no effect → no need to adjust it → fewer variables.

Your claim, “The best shooters, imho, are not achieved by tillering to even strain anyway,” is interesting—why do you think so? Let’s take the D/R design as an example. The more bending near the handle and the stiffer the limbs, the more energy is stored, right? Like the famous Möllegabet bow. But, as you said, D/R designs need more taper, which leads to lighter limbs and, in turn, a faster bow. So more taper → more evenly distributed stresses and lighter limbs.

I tried my D/R model using a 0.010 taper (more taper). It stored less energy (as expected) but had lighter limbs (also expected). However, it ended up a few fps slower due to the reduced stored energy. Most importantly, the maximum strain values were higher. With less taper (0.006), the limbs were a bit heavier, the bow was slower, and the maximum strain values were slightly higher. In VirtualBow, I get maximum speed and minimum strain when stresses are distributed as evenly as possible (within reasonable limits, of course).

When modeling, we can eliminate some variables, for example set, so the most meaningful ones (in terms of bow speed) are limb mass and stored energy. The side profile is linked to the stored energy, while the taper rate is linked to limb mass (at the cost of stored energy) and strain values. Then, you need to find the optimal solution for a specific side profile that minimizes limb mass and strain values. This solution produces the fastest bow.

In real life, we cannot “see” strain values, so it’s difficult to tiller perfectly, but we can learn a lot by using programs like VirtualBow. Of course, we also have to consider the real properties of natural materials (which we don’t really know…). My fastest bows have been "overbuilt" D/R-design, long, wide, minimally stressed.

I will publish my results tomorrow.
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Bows / Re: The best shape for a reflexed bow?
« Last post by simk on Today at 05:31:12 am »
Intersting experimantal setup Tuomo - that's exactly how software can make us wiser. Things like that are too difficult to examine in the real world!
I'm not surprised the d/r is the fastest - Still im curious to see your data.
However: Why do you use the same taper for all these bows? Different design needs different tapers. No wonder, the d/r is the most stressed - d/r needs stronger taper than the others or it will have too much bend on the inners which makes it of course fast but causing a lots of stress too.
However 2: The best shooters imho are not achieved by tillering to even strain anyways. They are just tillered so that the max strain does not exceed the capabilities of the wood. Within these boundaries you are looking for the fastest tiller, which never is even strain.
Simon

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Bows / Re: Snake bow
« Last post by Selfbowman on Today at 03:53:27 am »
No it’s going to be 35@24 so no extra weight of glue and skins desired.
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Bows / Re: Black locusts bow
« Last post by Selfbowman on Today at 03:50:19 am »
.ok Jim 🤠🤠
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Bows / Re: Black locusts bow
« Last post by Jim Davis on Today at 02:20:42 am »
We'd need to know the weight of the water in the bow at 8% to be able to do that math....
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Congrats bentstick!  And to all the participants really.  They are all fantastic looking bows.   
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Bows / Re: Snake bow
« Last post by superdav95 on Today at 01:41:21 am »
Lookin good so far Arvin. Are you gonna put snake skin on her
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Shooting and Hunting / Re: Another good day
« Last post by Pappy on Today at 12:35:54 am »
Thanks guys, good year so far for sure. Pappy
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Bows / Re: Snake bow
« Last post by Pappy on Today at 12:05:39 am »
Love it. Pappy
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