Concealed handguns for teachers

[JackCrafty]

Homeschooling needs to be encouraged and given tax incentives.  I do not like the teachers with guns idea: they would need to carry the weapons at all times to be effective.  I would prefer well trained security officers.

[JackCrafty]

Oh yeah, and metal detectors would solve problems at the front door.  I like that idea.

[Newindian]

Are you saying the schools would just use the main entrances ? That would make it impossible to move around (school of four thousand) you would have to add at least twenty minutes to passing periods and I'm not even to go into the problems that would cause. especially since many schools are composed of separate buildings. Should probably add that students are allowed to carry knives to school so long as the blades are under three inches, and I don't trust the school cops much, they tend to end up arresting people in the schools for the exact same things they did when they where in school.

[bowtarist]

I teach @ a lock down school.  Only the front door is left open and then they have to go through the main office to get into the school.  I'd carry if I had the option.  You never know.  I don't trust the judgment of all teachers though.  JMO, dpg

[Parnell]

Its not as simple as give em guns. When the school goes on lockdown what happens to the class of the teacher carrying a gun? Does the techer leave them to go start a gun fight? There are so many details and liablilies to work out for this to work just like when a mass shooting happens you can't just go and outlaw guns. It just don't work that easy.

Good point, it's part of what we were discussing here at work.  So all of a sudden if I'm armed I'm going to go wandering down the hallway and leave my students behind?  Not going to happen.  Where I work the walls are not block.  Rounds would pass straight through and then some.  Just another thought...

[Parnell]

OK look windows and doors with windows dont stop people with guns so metal detectors will not be an effective way to prevent a determined shooter. They will shoot out windows and enter at will. The one thing we can all agree on is when a shooter is in a school we want a person with a gun to kill them right.  So do you want to wait for a cop to bring a gun if your that teacher hearing a shooter going from room to room and yours is next...or do you wish you had a weapon (stun gun real gun?) at that moment.
It is a FACT that lack of action will cause more deaths and that is reality. .. ALICE

I teach and dont want to carry a gun everyday (what a drag) but if a shooter was coming to my room next I sure would like to have one at that moment.

Totally understand the point your making and I think it's valid.  Your last sentence is right on the target with how I'm feeling about the whole issue.  The school I'm at is a lockdown school, also.  But, there are always ways to get in, always gates left unchecked, doors left unlocked here and there, students leaving things open, not thinking, etc.

A good choice they made was to lock all vehicle entrances to the campus except for one during the school day.  Typically a SRO is always present.  The county I live in (Collier) is on the high end nationwide for the officer/campus ratio, from what we're told.  All cars have to come in through one gate.  But once you come in, it's not totally secure...never will be unless it looks like a militarized area.

[Buffalogobbler]

In this debate it seems as if we think that arming teachers will turn them into an impregnatible defensive line, and I doubt that they will be anything more than teachers with guns.
Many teenage students are bigger and stronger than thier teachers, what happens if a student takes a gun from a teacher?
If you arm teachers it is inevitable,you will be providing easy access to guns for a disturbed student.
It makes more sense to have an armed guard at each school.
JMHO
Kevin

[Marks]

At Sandy Hook the shooter was a teachers kid. At my wifes school you have to push a button and tell them who you are to get in but all I have to do is say I xxxxxxxxxxx's husband and they buzz me right in. Let the rampage begin.  I'm also with you about students overpowering teachers. That what I was saying about liabilities.

[PrimitiveTim]

Or we could revert back to the wild west days when kids were allowed to bring guns to school   

Schools in the big cities do have metal detectors at the entrences of the schools.  Maybe this should be a county by county sort of thing.  The county votes.  A rural school would probably do fine with guns in the school but in a big city like Atlanta where the school has a bunch of thugs running around, of course you can't allow guns in that school.

Also, don't most high schools already have a cop at the school.  I know mine did and it wasn't even that big.

[Christian Soldier]

'Gun Free zones' repeadedly only effect the law abiding citeznes. Any law you pass will only effect the law abiding citizens. The only way it effects criminals and psychos is it makes their jobs easier and safer.

Liberty University recently supported concealed carry on campus and really encourages it. Any gunman is probably going to think twice if as soon as he attempts something there's a chance he'll get shot instantly.

I read an article recently that was very powerfull and it said (Here on earth) 'Justice only happens in real time'. I couldn't agree more, also "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is with a good guy with a gun.'

Reffering to the OT, I know several teachers and obviously I know a lot of teens that know even more teachers. Most of them are flaming Liberals that are behind a lot of this gun 'banning' (Big surprise, the government funded teachers union prefers to employ liberals that will vote the liberals in again, 'mind blown'  ). I don't know that I would arm every teacher, but I'd definitely allow concealed carry and armed security.


BTW, I'm homeschooled and my father often carries and I'm in a generally well armed house. I'd highly suggest homeschooling to anyone who can, pm me if you have any questions. 

Its simply a dangerous world today, just be prepared.

[Parnell]

One thing that hasn't really come up in this conversation is the idea I'd mentioned early on.  The principal has the right to qualify any STAFF member at their discretion.  This is not to say that teachers will now have the right to conceal carry, if they wish.  This could be the librarian, front desk personel, the maintainance people, janitorial staff, THE LUNCH LADY!  And yes, teachers.

Two weeks ago we had a code yellow.  Some nut was running around the surrounding neighborhood with a machete.  This happened during lunch!  The cafeteria and whole school was on lock down - no one could enter or leave any room, for about 40 minutes.

In the beginning of the year there was a code red.  Another nut decided to die by cop suicide behind the circle K a block away, they shot him 8 times when he pulled a pistol.

There are nuts around.  I'm only about 4 blocks from the courthouse.

[criveraville]

Lots of great points and discussions here.  It makes me ANGRY that its even a topic, but it is.  My position on it is that lockdown does not work and to wait in a locked classroom with a class full of children and wait your fate as happened in other school shooting should not be your only option.  Most shootings have not even had the time to get in lock down mode.  It only happened in Ct because the office staff turned on the intercom.  I do not like it.  However, my main goal each day is the safety of my students.  If I am charged with that responsibility then I should have the ability to meet a person with ill intentions with lethal force at my classroom door. 

Cipriano

[TRACY]

There are a lot of varying opinions. I've taught at an inner city school with a metal detector/security guards at the only unlocked entrance. Students once in the building find ways to get items in the school. Another issue with all doors locked is fire code problems. I agree that we need to revamp our security strategies in America's schools to protect our kids. I'm not sure that there is one solution to fit ALL schools security needs.

Parnell, we currently have the same policy in the state that allows principals the right to designate those to be concealed carriers outside the school, ie off duty cops.

Marks & BG , I've got to respectfully disagree with students overtaking the teacher stereotype at my school and especially in my classroom .This would be a concern of mine if all teachers were required to carry a gun. Productive comments!


Tracy

[Slackbunny]

Many schools in different parts of the world are not built like the ones in North America. They are solid, they are defensible and they are guarded by people with firearms. It is the norm in many areas, and it should be everywhere. People say that we shouldn't have to do that, but given recent evidence I would beg to differ.

Western culture in general (America in particular, but also Canada and others) has a delusional view of how great our countries and cultures are, and how much better we are than others. We've come to believe ourselves above the need for such primitive things as armed guards and personal protective weapons. But the fact is we've always needed them, we need them now, and we always will need them. The world is by its very nature turbulent, violent, and utterly indifferent to the lives of humans. The longer we try to ignore those facts and put band aids on the problems the more lives we will lose.

Its time to take proactive steps towards protecting ourselves and our children. Laws in the past have tried to solve the problem indirectly and they have failed miserably. You can't legislate against evil, insanity, or chaos. But you can prepare for it.
 

[JW_Halverson]

JW, I have a problem with it. My problem is none of that will kill the shooter. Teachers need to be throwing lead, not books.

"Weaponizing" the classroom against a shooter is not about killing the shooter.  It is about delay and distraction tactics that reduce the shooter's effectiveness.  The idea is to prevent as many casualties as possible until a final solution is met.  Meanwhile, if the teacher is loaded for bear, let'em return fire.  It's a whole lot better than being the good sheep waiting in line to die.

And to be very cold blooded, absolutely pragmatic...would we rather have 30+ victims due to the shooter, or half that with one or two other students caught in crossfire?  Feel free to use old school mathematics or modern math to add/subtract your way to a final number. 

For those that are horrified by my remarks, feel free to come up with the easy answer that solves everyone's problems in one fell swoop.  Then when you have that done, please go solve the problems in the Middle East.  Oh, and not that anyone here would say all guns should be outlawed, because we all know that a 25 lb propane tank and $15 at the hardware store makes a bomb that will nearly level a city block.  We can't outlaw everything that can be made dangerous.