Author Topic: Flight Arrows  (Read 41567 times)

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Offline DC

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2020, 04:01:12 pm »
How about centershot? You mentioned Ivar's very light arrows and in a later post Alan said something about his centershot bow and his release aid. If you have an arrow that is low spine centershot isn't going to help the flight is it? I can kinda see a release helping. Maybe if this finger flipping the string is a bigger thing than I thought. Is it the butterfly flap that starts a hurricane ;D?

Offline avcase

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2020, 12:16:57 pm »
Don,
Do give a release a try. I do prefer using a simple non-mechanical release, especially when shooting very light spine arrows.

I did have an interesting experience shooting Broadhead flight this last year. We are allowed to use a non-mechanical release with the modern recurve Broadhead event, so I shot three arrows with a finger release, and three arrows with a simple hook&loop release. I took my time drawing back with the back side of the Broadhead touching off on the back of the bow to set the draw length. I noticed the finger release arrows were kicking off to the side and I thought these shots were going to give terrible results. The arrows shot with a release appeared to leave the bow much cleaner without any side-to-side wag.  To my surprise, the longest shots were the arrows shot with the finger release! How this happened is a mystery to me.

I usually have opposite results where the arrows shot with the release do better, although this was usually with light flight arrows.

Alan

Offline DC

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2020, 12:22:58 pm »
What is a hook and loop release? I googled it and what I got sure looks mechanical to me.


PS I found the pictures that Willie posted of what I think is hook and loop. With this and the number 9 releases do you have to rotate your hand 90?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 01:01:35 pm by DC »

Offline willie

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2020, 01:28:53 pm »
I see some you rotate your hand and some you twist your hand and some you hold pressure with your thumb and then relax.


http://presleysoutdoors6.blogspot.com/2014/02/larry-wise-core-archery-academy.html
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 01:46:54 pm by willie »

Offline avcase

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2020, 02:17:09 pm »
That was a pretty cool article on releases. The hook and loop release I referred to earlier is similar to the rope-spike releases shown near the beginning of the article. It takes a little practice at first, but quickly becomes so natural that it releases cleanly at full draw without little deliberate thought.  I remember handing one to a fellow flight archer the first time and it didnt release when he thought it should, so he completely let go of the release and the bow sent the release and arrow together down range!

I like the simple hook ones that let go with a slight rotation also.  The smaller you can make the hook, the cleaner it releases the arrow.

Alan

Offline DC

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2020, 02:52:02 pm »
Well I may be stupid but looking at those pictures doesn't help me know how they work or how to use them. ;D Any videos? Not the ones in the article. I can see that they are holding something and that eventually the arrow disappears but that's all.
I did figure out how the figure 9 ones work. I made one once that was just a strap of leather that went around the string and you pinched the end of it. It worked well but when the leather flipped around the string it smacked my knuckle real hard. I only used it a few times and then screamed the safe word :D
The one with the string loop and the barely bent wire has me puzzled.

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2020, 06:17:59 am »
I hope you get it figured out DC. Im wanting to play in this sand box to. I havent watched any of the videos or links yet but I hope we can both figure this out.

Im curious about thing like % of foc. Spine, tip weight, fletching. Length Rules.  Different categories.

Badger mentions a 25 arrow. That would fit my draw nicely, but I was thinking I would have to somehow stretch out my draw to 28 (I have to stretch it out to 25 as it is) and go with a 50@28 bow.

For now Im just having fun shooting my 600 grain river cane pole barn spike point arrows and watching them fly. I only have to walk about half as far to get them as what you guys are talking.

Bjrogg

PS hope to give you some encouragement DC
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline JNystrom

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2020, 08:46:33 am »
Badger mentions a 25” arrow. That would fit my draw nicely, but I was thinking I would have to somehow stretch out my draw to 28” (I have to stretch it out to 25” as it is) and go with a 50@28 bow.
What i've learned is basically that the starting point is minimizing ratio of grains to poundage. If i'm shooting for a distance record, i never go over 200 grains with the arrow. In the 50-90# shortbows or composite bows it means something like 4gpp to 1,6gpp. But physics tell us one should go much lower if at all possible to get the maximum distance.

Harry Drake shot in 1945 a 69 pound yew bow with 23" arrow weighing 135 grains some 541 yards. So that goes along nicely with the theory!

Offline Yooper Bowyer

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2020, 10:18:52 am »
Yes, but lighter arrows are more susceptible to drag.

Offline willie

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2020, 06:26:54 pm »
Yes, but lighter arrows are more susceptible to drag.

theoretically yes, assuming two stabilized arrows of otherwise similar dimensions.  I wonder if early stabilization and reduction of consequent velocity losses seem more important, even to the point of having a heavier (stiffer) arrow than than the one Harry managed to shoot.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 07:01:45 pm by willie »

Offline Yooper Bowyer

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2020, 07:07:42 pm »
I think the trick is to shoot them cleanly to begin with so very little stabilization is needed.

Offline willie

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2020, 08:20:29 pm »
if that could be done, why would we need fletchings? seems to me there is always some settling down the arrow has to accomplish..... a matter of degree etc.

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2021, 06:13:32 pm »
DC, Your systematic approach should serve you well.  A well tuned arrow makes a big difference.

I have an article in my files somewhere written by one or the leading flight archers of the 1970s. I recall that he used a test where he measured the buckling force on his arrows. But it may have been different thing because the arrows were shot with a release through a keyhole type riser.

I used to sort my flight arrows by their natural vibration frequency.  It requires good organization and good note taking in order to get something out of it.

Alan

Say what!!!!    Call the country boy and explain!!!   Arvin
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline willie

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2021, 03:48:44 pm »
Arvin, which part of that post are you curious about?

Offline PatM

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Re: Flight Arrows
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2021, 04:31:30 pm »
Badger mentions a 25 arrow. That would fit my draw nicely, but I was thinking I would have to somehow stretch out my draw to 28 (I have to stretch it out to 25 as it is) and go with a 50@28 bow.
What i've learned is basically that the starting point is minimizing ratio of grains to poundage. If i'm shooting for a distance record, i never go over 200 grains with the arrow. In the 50-90# shortbows or composite bows it means something like 4gpp to 1,6gpp. But physics tell us one should go much lower if at all possible to get the maximum distance.

Harry Drake shot in 1945 a 69 pound yew bow with 23" arrow weighing 135 grains some 541 yards. So that goes along nicely with the theory!

  I think the arrows were a bit heavier(145?) and according to Dan Perry the bow was actually quite a bit heavier initially.   Harry used shelf type overdraws so I wouldn't doubt if this bow shot the shorter arrow at an actual longer draw.